Remote/accessory power distro (product interest?)

Grim0013 · Post by **Grim0013** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:48 am

Thanks for the support guys. That really is very encouraging to hear. Really helps me stay focused. As to the purdy lights, I am leaving LEDs for last. I intend to work something out with them, but I need to get the rest in order first.

That said though, does anyone have any LED suggestions? Like an LED for each remote that illuminates when the remote is being used? Downside of that setup though, is that something like a fan, which doesn't use the remote lead, just the B- and B+, wouldn't illuminate unless the user wired the remote lead in parallel with the B+, in order to get some current flowing through it.

Another potential LED use is to have one on the outputs of the two relays, indicating when they are active. Like, the delayed on one wouldn't illuminate until the delay was done, and same thing with the delayed-off circuit. This is just two LEDs and seems useful too. Then add a generic power LED somewhere maybe, not sure if it'd be a needed, or a good idea, already having two power LEDs on the delay circuits.

bretti_kivi · Post by **bretti_kivi** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:30 pm

definitely. Because users like purty lights and showing power and "output on" are pretty much essential.

From a marketing point of view:
- it has to look good
- it has to be available
- it needs to go "BLING"
- it ought to do something

in that order. Remember your four Ps? Price, product, placement, promotion? If the product exists and looks good (especially with fuses lit from the inside), whether it works excellently or merely well is irrelevant, provided the price is good. Customers will forgive a lot for something that they figure is "sexy", no?

As for the fan: why wouldn't it use the remote lead? Maybe that's an important thing, here; a fan should be on when power is applied to the complete system and therefore should only have two connectors. Fans and Neons / LEDs, all that jazz, should be "on" when the system is.

Bret

Grim0013 · Post by **Grim0013** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:53 pm

Actually, after stopping to think, the way a fan without a remote input should be wires is B- and R, not using B+, as B+ is direct to batt in the current design. Hrmmm.

As to looks, I think I know what looks good, the problem is that I really have to idea exactly what I need to look for, and no idea where I should be looking for it. I've never done anything like this before. I already know electronics fairly well, but putting together a cosmetically pleasing enclosure is more difficult, as I have no idea where to begin. Hell, I'm even having a total bitch of a time sourcing connectors for this thing. PCBs and components are g2g though.

gridracer · Post by **gridracer** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:03 pm

Connectors like this? http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSea ... =ED1734-ND

bretti_kivi · Post by **bretti_kivi** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:08 pm

ever used Sketchup? Try it for this, you'll understand a lot more about what fits and what doesn't. If you've no time or not used it before, give me the details and I can create a mockup or two.

Case link: http://www.modushop.biz/ecommerce/cat036_l2.php?n=1
they'll also do CNC milling.

Bret

Grim0013 · Post by **Grim0013** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:17 pm

gridracer wrote:Connectors like this? http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSea ... =ED1734-ND

Along those lines, yeah. I've known for some time what I wanted for connectors. It's just that there is such an overwhelming number of different ones out there making it difficult to find what I want. Making progress though. I think I found what I need for everything except B+ and B-. I'd like to be able to go 8awg there, but the stuff I found only goes up to 12awg. Whether I need 8awg or not, better to have it. Plus, it'd be better for marketing.

Grim0013 · Post by **Grim0013** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:53 pm

Somewhat surprisingly, I am finding connectors to be a serious hurdle. It's pretty tough to find decent connectors that won't end up with a total cost around $30. That amount is simply unacceptable, as it would end up costing more than everything else.

Another possible hurdle, though I haven't delved into this aspect much yet, is the cost of the case. I took a quick look at some of the options posted earler, but the cost of them is somewhat off-putting. I'd like to find an enclosure that will have a unit cost of around $10 if possible. It doesn't need to be anything more than functional. Nothing fancy.

All told, parts cost is beginning to look like it will be closer to $40 than I was initially hoping. We'll see. Maybe I'll have a few breakthroughs in the sourcing quest.

Post by **ttocs** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:44 pm

one piece of advise that I thought of today when I recieved my DD5(you started this project a week too late for me). The two times that I have used these both times it has been a little larger then what I needed and I had to really try to get them in. make them as small as possible, you could save alot of space by going to the mini fuses rather then the regular wafer style. The little connectors sure are neat, but it is one more thing to keep track of as well. Maybe rather then have the removable style, just look into some that easily disconnected.

As for the led's, I was reading the manual for the DD10 and thought the way they have the tri-leds were set up were cool. One for power, one for the delayed on, and one for the delayed off. This would tell you everything you need to know and I think we already like the style?

gridracer · Post by **gridracer** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:39 pm

Digikey has some terminal blocks that will accept 10 AWG

Post by **Wakeup** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:19 pm

I like lights....lets have some!

When the time comes!

Post by **Wakeup** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:33 pm

dunno what kind of LED's are needed, but here's some bulk pricing....
http://www.superbrightleds.com/led_prcs.htm

Grim0013 · Post by **Grim0013** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:00 pm

I've spent the past two days looking at connectors. I have found a low-cost solution for general connections, but the larger power connectors are proving very evasive, unless I were willing to spend $10+ on that one connector, which I am not. I'm already hitting about $20 in parts without an enclosure.

How big of a power and ground input do you guys think I need to support, say, a total of 12 remotes, 6 B+, and 6 B-?

bretti_kivi · Post by **bretti_kivi** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:49 am

Read your own specs, think about what's on the list...

if it's a total of 20A (as I've just read), then... well, I think 10AWG is overkill and 12 would be fine. I was going to suggest 11 (that's 4sqmm).
Nothing stopping a user also reducing cable size, is there?

Bret

Post by **ttocs** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:34 am

why not just get some spade terminals that you could use insulated female spades that easily crimp on the wires, and easily disconnect with a small pull? Do you know the style? I use them on the bottom of relays to make quick and easy connections and can take a pic if you need but these would be super cheap to buy, easy to install and we would not have to worry about keeping track of the connectors since we could get them at home depot.

Post by **Rold Gold** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:45 am

Dood..... I'm in too.......

I wonder if you could find the same type of connectors that PG uses..... The males are readily available but can't say I've ever seen the famales anywhere.......

Grim0013 · Post by **Grim0013** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:53 am

ttocs wrote:why not just get some spade terminals that you could use insulated female spades that easily crimp on the wires, and easily disconnect with a small pull? Do you know the style? I use them on the bottom of relays to make quick and easy connections and can take a pic if you need but these would be super cheap to buy, easy to install and we would not have to worry about keeping track of the connectors since we could get them at home depot.

Yeah, I know the ones you're talking about. I didn't think of using those. I'll have to look in to that. Thanks.

The biggest hurdle, I think, is going to be finding a suitable enclosure that looks good and doesn't cost too much. Pretty tough to keep the price under $50 if I end up having to use a $25 enclosure.

Post by **ttocs** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:28 pm

Take a look at the battery charger I bought for my RC airplanes. All that it really is, is 4 plastic stand-offs that you can find at any ace hardware, and two metal pieces(top and bottom) and the 4 screws that hold it together. With this design you would have to be carefull about pieces of wire getting into it but that is not necesarrily a new thing......

http://www.fmadirect.com/Detail.htm?ite ... section=45

It is how-ever a simple and sturdy design that would be super cheap to get together and super easy to put together.

I was thinking about the spade connectors and if you airline wrap the 3 wires going to it, and used some colored shrink wrap on the spade connectors it would be easy to identify to plug in.

PaulD · Post by **PaulD** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:12 pm

typical markup is 500%, so if they (PG) are selling at $300, then there is like $60 of parts and labor in it. They just have the advantage of buying things in bulk.

Grim0013 · Post by **Grim0013** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:55 pm

A few things, I have been able to find some decent terminal blocks, but the issue with them is that they have the leads on the bottom, so basically, they would need to be mounted to the PCB. making it so that the cover would need to be removed in order to tighten/loosen the connections. Obviously I want to do this as professionally as possible, and that is a bit of a hack, but maybe it isn't enough of one to be that big of a deal? I was already planning on making it so that the cover had to be removed to access the timing control pots.

I really would like to have a nice looking enclosure. I think that it going to be a big factor in determining interest in the product. I haven't put near as much time into sourcing enclosures as I have into design and connectors, as those were/are the priority tasks that needed to be addressed in order to progress with the design. Now though, I think I am going to start focusing on that aspect a bit more. Really all the various parts are tied together when it comes to finalizing anything.

On the down side, I may not be able to get much work done this week, as I am barely able to use my arms at the moment. Skateboarding accident. I know today I am pretty much just lying on the couch watching movies, eating pain killers and rum. We'll see how it progresses.

Grim0013 · Post by **Grim0013** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:32 pm

I wanted aluminum, but what do you guys think about something like this?
Some of the advantages it offers are cost, mounting flanges, and integral PCB mounting bosses.

Post by **ttocs** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:30 pm

The only problem with a piece like that is that you are going to be making alot of holes into it to make access. The more holes you have to make the more time it will take per piece. How many holes are you going to need?

Post by **joerg** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:03 pm

If u take all the effort of how to build it, the part´s and the time u need to get it ready u´ll be at around 200USD per Unit! I´d rather take a unit that already proofed that it is going to last and work for years by that time!

Grim0013 · Post by **Grim0013** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:41 pm

joerg wrote:If u take all the effort of how to build it, the part´s and the time u need to get it ready u´ll be at around 200USD per Unit! I´d rather take a unit that already proofed that it is going to last and work for years by that time!

Actualy, at this stage it is looking like there is a good chance of meeting the $50 usd goal. Worst case is still under $70, most likely $60. We'll see. And I intend these to last for years. I'll cut costs where I can, but not at the cost of quality.

bretti_kivi · Post by **bretti_kivi** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:09 am

that looks pretty good. You could get a top custom molded?

Bret

Post by **Bfowler** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:14 am

that works for me! you could install that bad boy damn near anywhere!