Hehehe....

[KUB3]

^ ps

A Celestion AD15 can also sound as good ported v sealed, so long as you get the enclosure just right. It's more of a low powered SQ sub though. An Aliante also has a good ported reputation. But it's probably a rare thing!

[Eric D]

The spider on the top of the cone is basic math. Even with cone under it, that cone does nothing. Say the speaker moved 1" peak to peak. At peak outward motion, the outside of the spider is 0.5" forward of resting position. The center of the spider is fixed in place due to the mounting assembly for it. Draw a line from the outside edge of the spider to the center and you form a triangle in a cross section. Now the spider is at peak inward movement. This would also be 0.5" in from rest position. Draw another line and you have another triangle. You can use those triangles to calculate the volume of air moved by the spider and my guess is it will be a bit over half what it would be if the spider also moved 1" at its center point (like what a normal cone would be doing, or if you put a big dust cap over the spider assembly).

I have no evidence or proof, but I am very close to 100% certain they do not machine the basket on these woofers. That would not be cost effective for a production speaker. These were expensive, but they were not THAT expensive.

You are totally right on the accordion surround. It belongs on a PA speaker, not a car audio subwoofer. Those surrounds are part of what gives guitar speakers their individual surround (really their style of distortion). Guitar guys will buy speakers with different cone construction, surround construction and motors to custom tailor their guitar amps to the sound they want. Us car audio guys want deep powerful and clean bass, something the accordion surround fails at doing.

I don't know what to think of your triple Stroker experience. I would guess three 12s of any type in any installation would be very loud. If a single Stroker 12 was really loud I might be more impressed. As for the Rsd subs, I would not buy any personally, so I don't doubt you were not impressed with them.

[ttocs]

I disagree Eric. I have had each variety of the OS strokers over the years, and they are on my top ten list of the best sounding subs out there.

First off all, the basket has to be machined for the motor assembly. Not many casting process can come from the form and go straight into use. I wouldn't doubt that there were bad runs, there is with any product that gets mass produced.

The spider, well, there is cone under the spider, leaving ~3" diameter of the VC former in the middle. I'm sure the spider causes some acoustical damping, but I don't think you can call the cone area underneath it non existent either. I suspect that front spider has very little impact on the output of the sub at all. The strokers have some of the highest efficiency numbers found in high power car audio subs.

As for the surround, I can't really argue that, I always thought it was a little odd, but remember that there were very few long excursion drivers when these were built, and very, very few subs with large roll surrounds. The accordion surround has been used for what, 100 years, on PA drivers? Does that make it old tech, or proven tech? I don't know, but it works.

I have 4 12D2 strokers in my collection right now. I ran three of them in my Jetta while I waited for a 3rd RSDc12 to come up for sale at a decent price. I ran them for about 4 months, they are phenomenally loud, and they sound excellent. They are the only ported car audio sub that I have heard that sounds as good or better than a sealed sub. I replaced them with the RSDc12s, same amp, same box (box was actually built to RSDc specs with those being the final sub choice as soon as I got a hold of a third) and not only were the RSDcs not anywhere near the same output, but they also sound muddy as shit, you know, the good ol' ported sub sound. The RSDcs do have more output down low, but the the Strokers have them trumped on SQ.

Good snag Jeorg, I hope you enjoy it!

Later,
Jason

nope, sorry you are wrong too. You do not have to agree with him but it makes him happy to listen.

What you have phisically seen and heard in your reality, does not exist . It could not have happened on this planet, his or any other.

[Eric D]

You need to get a grip...

Just because the sub sounds good in one or even a few installations does not mean it is a great sub.

Yes it moves air and yes it makes bass. But any sub can do that.

All I am saying is this sub is one of the worst subs ever designed. And I have given a lot of points to back that up.

And the number one point is, do they make it any more? Does anyone make anything like it any more? No. The sub sucked, so it failed and is just a piece of audio history, like all the other innovative but failed designs over the years.

[Eric D]

Here, there is no way any of you guys can argue with this...

http://www.cerwinvega.com/manuals/mobil ... review.pdf

Now that is a real speaker. The clear dustcap solves the issue of less cone displacement from the exposed spider, and the fat roll high profile surround lets the cone be physically larger to move more air. Couple that with a very long throw voice coil design and you are looking at a real speaker.

[Ahsmo]

nope, sorry you are wrong too. You do not have to agree with him but it makes him happy to listen.

What you have phisically seen and heard in your reality, does not exist . It could not have happened on this planet, his or any other.

I bet you're a liberal?

[ttocs]

saying it is a shitty sub that can be made to pound really doesn't make sence to me. I have seem plenty of shitty subs that could "move air" but couldn't pound like those would.

Just because they do not make it anymore doesn't mean it is crap or all the old pg stuff we love must be crap too right? I didn't say I liked the sub enough to run out and buy one, I said it looks sexy and I have heard them pound. I didn't say that you were wrong in any of your points other then the one above, and I too question the "no machining" theory" but not enough to care.

not sure why you are arguing with us really. One of us(not me) was happy to find a hard to find, good looking speaker that you insist on tearing apart as though it slept with yer sister. I was simply sharing his enthusiasm till you pissed on his post to tell us why you hate them....

I am not political at all so I have never had the need to label myself.

[Eric D]

Well, my only real goal here in this thread is to prevent someone buying one of these subs for the wrong reasons.

If a younger member of the forum sees these subs and thinks they are great because all of us older members chat about how great they were back in the day, they might actually want one and waste their hard earned money on one.

Compared to most any modern sub from a reputable company, these old Strokers are junk. Additionally, 90% of the time a new sub is better than any older sub, due to the nature of what they are. Subs wear out. Amps don't. If someone wants to buy a 1994 MS amp for their car, great, it should perform as good as a modern amp. However, if they want to run a pre-2000 or so sub, they are asking for problems. Subs this old actually wear out just sitting on the shelf. Their suspension components sag and rot. Their glues actually decay as well, and become far more brittle.

Additionally, there is nothing wrong with owning something which sucks. No one should be too proud to admit the flaws in the products they have. I own a pair of 1998 PPI Pro12s. Those subs cost $499 a piece back in the day. They suck. They have almost no output. Their design is completely ass backwards for car audio use. They use a very short coil in a long magnetic gap, something better used in home audio or pro applications. And to top it off their main selling point (the flat cone) makes a very distinct and annoying air flow noise which requires you to bury the sub deep in the install so you never have to hear it.

For the price I paid I should be bragging these PPI subs up to everyone. But I am not. They suck, and I was a dumbass for believing the marketing hype on them. I keep them for historical reasons (the same reason I would keep a stroker), and I will do everything I can to talk someone out of using a PPI Pro sub in an installation. If they want to buy them to collect, I can't argue. If they want to use them, they are wasting their money.

[kg1961]

Eric I here what you are saying As for the PPI Pc/pro I aggree 100% I bought a 12 back in the day and in a week sold it and bought a jl 12w3v1
It was a far better sub and cheaper to buy also