Phoenix Gold Phorum

Well im not gonna lie, since I grew up with the ZX series amps thats all I have, but thinking of having a set up in my truck where I would like the internals showing I think going the MS route would be a better option.

Iv been going back and forth on the webfaq and I think If I wanted to run my fronts and mids I would need 2 ms-275 correct?
Also whats the difference between the MPS2240 and the MS275?

What ones would you recommend for mids fronts and backs?

I think for sub (if I do go that route) would be a MS2125/MS2250/MPS2500 what ever I can find cheapest

I see alot of people loving this series so I might have to sell some ZX gear and get into some MS gear

EDIT: Ohh ya I know some people that have a couple of MPS-2240 and MS250 but I didnt think it would be sufficient enough for my mids and tweets what do you think?

Brad

instead of 2 ms275,s why not one ms2125 and a mps2500 only if you can bridge it down enough to take advantage of its capabilities then this would rock

the MS275 is a overall higher power amp which PG has stated in the manual because both of their manuals use the same book cause I have a MS275 now the MPS2240 actually should have more head room than the MS275. PG says that the MPS and MS stands for Mobile Professional Series and Mobile Series basically they are saying that the mps is a better "quality". Also the MPS line of amps should be able to handle a lower load on the channels than the MS amps but then u sacrifice quality sound with kower ohm loads. Now everyone know that PG origanl MPS/MS series amps we're never rated correctly by PG and that was intenional for sound comptitions but the MPS were even more unrated than the MS series. thats why PG always have stated in the manuals what their amps put out @ 12V not 14.4V which you actually should add about 20-30% more watts to what their manuals say. Now my manual says that the MS275 consumes 60 amps of current with a 4ohm mono load and the MPS2240 consumes about 30 amps of current with a 4ohm mono load. So the MS275 to my calcultion can put out around 750W peak bridged @ 4 ohms thats around 375W rms when PG states that amps is 225W rms. So I think you can make a better personal judging call with ur set-up. Also I have a MQ430 for my mids and highs you might wanna look at that amp for you 4-ch set-up its a really loud and clear amp. Now mine has a 2 ohm load on each ch so its does about 75Wx4 rms. Also if any real pro's out hear reading this please feel free to step in and correct me if Im wrong

nope that sound about right to me
I have owned both the ms275 and mps2240,mps2220 if you not running them down than you will not get to enjoy the amp the way it was made
my ms275 stereo was at 2ohm running 2 10"jl 10w3d4 it was very loud it got hot but...

hmmm thanks for the responses guys. So I have some thinking to do. If I were going to run my 6" zero point component and 6" RSD Components I dont think I would be using it to its full potential. The RSD says its a 4 ohm impedance so would I not be able to bring it down to 2 ohms by bridging it on the amp, I forget the ohms law formula but im pretty sure thats how it would be.

A single 2125 would be ok too I guess but then I would have to re sketch the rear trunk. Considering the size of the ms 275's, 3 amps would have been perfect

Ok so lemme get this straight, is the MPS2240 making more power then the ms275? I know the sheet says they are both 0.007 THD so theres really no difference in distortion.

thanks again for everyone help on explaining the MS stuff to me

yes and no on the mps making more power from what my manual says I cant really see how the mps would make more cause it consumes less current than the ms275 cause the book says the mps at 1 OHM draws the same amount of current as a MS275 at a 4 ohms load. But PG says the mps line are their "cheater amps" and its the higher end version of the MS series. So I will let the vet's and pros tell you what they know cause I think some of them have even worked for PG before and I know theyve been working in this industry for allot longer than me. But Im 99% sure the MS275 puts out more wattage than the MPS2240

knightrider358 wrote:yes and no on the mps making more power from what my manual says I cant really see how the mps would make more cause it consumes less current than the ms275 cause the book says the mps at 1 OHM draws the same amount of current as a MS275 at a 4 ohms load. But PG says the mps line are their "cheater amps" and its the higher end version of the MS series. So I will let the vet's and pros tell you what they know cause I think some of them have even worked for PG before and I know theyve been working in this industry for allot longer than me. But Im 99% sure the MS275 puts out more wattage than the MPS2240

ya because I just looked at the guts of both and they are both VERY simular (still not 100%) I donno why I go through phases like this where im going crazy over amps lol

Brad

knightrider358 wrote:the MS275 is a overall higher power amp which PG has stated in the manual because both of their manuals use the same book cause I have a MS275 now the MPS2240 actually should have more head room than the MS275. PG says that the MPS and MS stands for Mobile Professional Series and Mobile Series basically they are saying that the mps is a better "quality". Also the MPS line of amps should be able to handle a lower load on the channels than the MS amps but then u sacrifice quality sound with kower ohm loads. Now everyone know that PG origanl MPS/MS series amps we're never rated correctly by PG and that was intenional for sound comptitions but the MPS were even more unrated than the MS series. thats why PG always have stated in the manuals what their amps put out @ 12V not 14.4V which you actually should add about 20-30% more watts to what their manuals say. Now my manual says that the MS275 consumes 60 amps of current with a 4ohm mono load and the MPS2240 consumes about 30 amps of current with a 4ohm mono load. So the MS275 to my calcultion can put out around 750W peak bridged @ 4 ohms thats around 375W rms when PG states that amps is 225W rms. So I think you can make a better personal judging call with ur set-up. Also I have a MQ430 for my mids and highs you might wanna look at that amp for you 4-ch set-up its a really loud and clear amp. Now mine has a 2 ohm load on each ch so its does about 75Wx4 rms. Also if any real pro's out hear reading this please feel free to step in and correct me if Im wrong

MS and MPS are mostly identical, but the MPS2240 is geared for low impedances (i.e. 2 ohms bridged/1 ohm stereo), where the MS275 is geared for normal impedances (4 ohms bridged/2 ohm stereo). There's also the MAC200, which is again the same thing, but geared for high impedances (8 ohms bridged/4 ohm stereo).

They all make the same power, just at different impedances. The MPS were popular in early 90's competition, where your system power was rated at the 12v rated wattage. So an MPS2240 would be rated 24 x 2 watts... but that little "50 watt" amplifier can put out 180w at 2 ohms bridged, or with proper cooling, ~300w at 1 ohm bridged. So when your 50w amps give you 300w power, you have an enormous advantage over your competitors.

MS2125 and MPS2500 are the same story. The MS2125 is geared for 2 ohm stereo/4 ohm bridged, and the MPS2500 is geared for 1 ohm stereo/2 ohm bridged. Same power out of both amps at their proper impedance. There should be no sound quality difference between the amps. The setup that will "sound best" is the one with the most power, not necessarily the most headroom. If you gain matched all of the amplifiers to 35x2 at 4 ohms they would all have gobs of headroom anyways.

thanx for the clarifacation stupid I knew someone out there would know exactly the difference I was jus going by the "book" lol

I say stick with the ZX series. It would be nice to display MS amps with their board showing, but you would be giving up a lot to go with MS.

MS have no features like crossovers, LPL, and RMD. MS have no fans and are less reliable. And although MS amps are very powerful, you would loose some headroom, as the ZX have extreme amounts of headroom.

To clarify further... let's say the amps make 300w at their respective impedances

Voltage = square root ( Watts * Impedance )

MPS2240... sqrt(300 watts*2 ohms) = 24.5v
MS275... sqrt(300 watts*4 ohms) = 34.6v
MAC200... sqrt(300 watts*8 ohms) = 49v

So the amps produce very different voltages, but still have the same power. This is because at lower impedances, you need less voltage but more CURRENT. The MPS amps are current amps, while the MAC is a voltage amp, and the MS lies in between.

If you ran a MAC200 at 2 ohms, let's see what would happen

49v = sqrt( watts * 2 ohms)
49v^2 = watts * 2 ohms
49v^2
------- = watts
2 ohms
1200 = watts

It would try to produce 1200 watts! But the amp is unable to sustain the required current at 49v in order to produce that power. So it would either shut off or limit the power.

Wow thanks stipud for the clarification

Eric D, awwww you just burst my bubble lol. I guess the only benifit I wanted was the board showing and the tiny bit cleaner THD. Iv passed my SPL days and am more for SQ now.

Well im more confused now then ever. I just put my brand new windows on my ZX950 and it looks freggin amazing! but its pretty big to put in my car and the 3 separate amps (if I wasnt gonna get a sub it would only be 2) would look so nice facing up showing the guts

what to do what to do

THD isn't really measured consistently, and it's not like you can hear the difference below 1% anyways

Install your ZX950. ZX 4 LYFE!

MS are a pain in the ass to work on as well. After doing the caps on mine I don't think I would want another one. The M and ZX series are waaaaaaay easier to do!

stipud wrote:THD isn't really measured consistently, and it's not like you can hear the difference below 1% anyways

Install your ZX950. ZX 4 LYFE!

MS are a pain in the ass to work on as well. After doing the caps on mine I don't think I would want another one. The M and ZX series are waaaaaaay easier to do!

Ahhhh im shot down. lol ok fine im keeping my zx stuff. Im actually thinking of making a nice lexan clear case for one of my zx950's. I just called the company to order a sheet of this stuff. meh gives me something to do. I just HATE cutting plexi/lexan.

Brad

KillerX wrote:

stipud wrote:THD isn't really measured consistently, and it's not like you can hear the difference below 1% anyways

Install your ZX950. ZX 4 LYFE!

MS are a pain in the ass to work on as well. After doing the caps on mine I don't think I would want another one. The M and ZX series are waaaaaaay easier to do!

Ahhhh im shot down. lol ok fine im keeping my zx stuff. Im actually thinking of making a nice lexan clear case for one of my zx950's. I just called the company to order a sheet of this stuff. meh gives me something to do. I just HATE cutting plexi/lexan.

Brad

what size plexi or lexan do you need... I have abunch, and can cut to spec.. jlmk

matt

you could always do a melting pot type PG system. I've long since been planning on using my Ti amps in conjunction with my MS1k. You're obviously familiar with the kick ass crossover capability of your ZX (which is almost exactly the same as my Ti). I plan on using the aux output on the Ti to feed a signal with a low pass filter and LPL capability to the no frills MS.

mhyde71 wrote:
what size plexi or lexan do you need... I have abunch, and can cut to spec.. jlmk

matt

whoa whoa whoa wait can you cnc/laser cut plexi!? Ill deff have to give you shout

Brad

CNC/Laser cut plexi would be up jcampbell 's alley, but if you want a straight up cut piece, i can do that... but if you're lookingto have somethi9ng milled or something with an etching, or a cut out in center- jason is your man!

Eric D wrote: MS have no fans and are less reliable.

Less reliable

i always thought the ms amps were very reliable (once caps done..)?

I nthink hes saying that if I play it full at 1-2 ohms for X hours its gonna be less reliable then a ZX with a fan. At least thats what I got from his message

Brad