Phoenix Gold Phorum

solved, see page two

Hey guys, I'm new here but not to PG. I'm not a super long time fanboy or anything...I'm not quite old enough for that. I got into them when the qx series were around and then Ti got huge.

I had a set of these RSD's in my old car, but they went with it when I sold it. I couldn't stand having shitty 4" or so infinity coaxials in my door panels anymore so I bit the bullet and bought the 6.5 cs's the other day so happy. I had them in my old car and they just sounded awesome.

The car is a '91 Audi 200. Long story short, its not a show car or anything but the plan is to make around 700awhp in it yet be a great cruiser...which it is. Its well on its way there already, but I can't stand not having my sq.

I do it oldskool!

HX-D10
Ti500.4 (probably bridged to the two RSD's and just cut out the rear stage alltogether)
Ta500.2 to two xs 8's sealed (might do an RSD10c in the near future)

I had a RSD12 in the car, but its just a little too much for me and not clean enough for my taste. I think my opinion would change once I have the 6.5's in the car since they would fill in the midbass so well, but I also think a 10c would be even better. Especially considering the two 8's make plenty of boom for my tastes usually anyway.

So anyway...here's the deal. This car doesnt have shit for room in the door panels lol. There is a metal frame that holds the window reg, etc. onto the inside of the door, and I may have to cut a hole into this to make clearance for whatever I mount the woofer in.

My main question is how much space should I give the 6.5's? The plan is to make some kind of enclosures out of fiberglass. If you have better suggestions feel free to shout them out. I'm open to whatever is easiest, yet best for sound.

Pics for clicks



next to the old speakers lol



and yes THIS grandpa car is going to make 800+bhp lol subtle is my sytle.




Just thought I'd tell a little about myself being that this is my second post. Thanks in advance for any help. So to sum it up, I'd just like a little advice on how much space to give these suckers and how best to go about it. Also and advice/criticism you might have for the rest of the setup is welcome


btw I remember a lot of your names from the old Phoenix Gold forums. I lurked those forums on a daily basis in like 8th grade

If you ever want to get rid of those XS 8's... let me know.

dwnrodeo wrote:If you ever want to get rid of those XS 8's... let me know.

X2 if rodeo can't. I've been looking (though not real hard) for a set of the XS8's.

I wouldn't bother with enclosures unless you can make them large... otherwise you will limit the midbass. You would be better off installing it on the door, and sound deadening it completely.

haha wow I didn't know the xs 8's were that rare/sought after.

I have had them in 3 cars now, and they come in and out...I love them to death but then sometimes I just want something that slams a little more...then I get tired of that and just want the 8's cuz of how clean they sound. They can go lower than you'd think! If I do choose to get rid of them ever, I will certainly try and get to you guys first.

I do have an RSD 12 and an Exile 12 I might want to get rid of...sucks that they are so cheap online tho. Its not even worth it.

stipud wrote:I wouldn't bother with enclosures unless you can make them large... otherwise you will limit the midbass. You would be better off installing it on the door, and sound deadening it completely.

Ok, the thing is I really dont want to add weight to this car. It already weighs 3600 lbs. How much would I need and does it just go all around the inside of the door? Thanks for your help. I definitely remember your name from way back. Didn't you have a lobster for an avatar or somethin?

loxxrider wrote:

stipud wrote:I wouldn't bother with enclosures unless you can make them large... otherwise you will limit the midbass. You would be better off installing it on the door, and sound deadening it completely.

Ok, the thing is I really dont want to add weight to this car. It already weighs 3600 lbs. How much would I need and does it just go all around the inside of the door? Thanks for your help. I definitely remember your name from way back. Didn't you have a lobster for an avatar or somethin?

Yep... I am the lobster.

To properly deaden the door you would have to put a layer or more on the inside, fab up some panels to cover all of the holes on the outside, and deaden over that surface completely as well (essentially turning your door into one big enclosure). So if you are truly concerned about weight, this is not for you. In that case, make your fiberglass enclosure as big as you can.

Ok yeah...there is a huge hole in the inside of the door. I was JUST going to ask about that. it would be almost impossibly hard to cover it especially considering there are more than 40 wires that have to come through it for window switches, mirror control, seat memory etc.

I hooked them up to the ti 500.4 free air and they sound fine. They distort very easily without making much sound, but that is what you expect with a free air setup. That had me really worried about just throwing them in the doors. (now I see exactly what you mean by sound deadened)

So what is the smallest enclosure I could get away with? .5 cu ft?

.5 cubes should be fine.

However, they shouldn't be "distorting" free air. Unlike most subs, the components are designed to play free air, so the only issue you will have is less midbass due to cancellations from the backwaves. This is why we deaden the door panel, or make an enclosure: to stop the reflected backwaves from canceling forward waves.

Odds are that's your door panel vibrating, not the speaker. A bit of deadener around the mounting area might help. Is it mounted flush with the door, or on a flat piece of MDF, etc?

I guess they aren't distorting...but it its almost like an echoey sound. Anything I have had play free air is kinda like that though. I didn't have them in anything as I have no way to mount them in the door panel yet. They were just sitting on the floor of the trunk of the car just so it would be easier to play around with the amp.

I hooked them up to the ti500.4 and the ta500.2 and got similar results.

Here are some pics of what I am working with.



(for size reference)



and this is the door panel. I'm thinking of just making the fiberglass mold out of that and then cutting away at that black plastic you see to make it fit better, acheive enough cu. ft., etc.

loxxrider wrote:I guess they aren't distorting...but it its almost like an echoey sound. Anything I have had play free air is kinda like that though. I didn't have them in anything as I have no way to mount them in the door panel yet. They were just sitting on the floor of the trunk of the car just so it would be easier to play around with the amp.

I hooked them up to the ti500.4 and the ta500.2 and got similar results.

Ah okay that makes sense then. That echoey sound you are hearing is out of phase sounds coming off the front and back of the speaker. As you move your head around you should be able to hear the various peaks and cancellations as well.

so it looks like the easiest way for me to do this puts me around .2 cubic feet...

maybe I should just sound deaden? I just want them to sound like they are supposed to.

From your pics it doesnt make sense to me where the stock speaker was mounted...

in this stupid Bose pod thing



which is why I am having such problems.

In that case I would make a trim ring that fits the RSD6.5, adapt it to the Bose enclosure, and fiberglass the mofo solid. That should be enough airspace to get respectable sound out of it.

Your door looks like absolute hell to install on, and I can't think of a way to install it on your door panels without chopping them all to hell.

Please if anyone else has any ideas, chime in! I am certainly not the best installer out there

Haha that was my first idea. They really dont have much space inside, but I'll open them up, take pics, and proceed to gut them as best I can. They have a little port, but I'll probably just seal that up.

Ok here is what they look like inside (with back of rsd for reference). Its definitely not anything near .5 cubic ft...but its also better than nothing.

They have a port as shown in the second pic. Shall I glass over that? I could cut out that port and make more room inside, but maybe it would sound good with? I doubt it, but I'm no expert.

Try it with the port first. I've found that they usually work well with aftermarket speakers.

Then again, the woofer will probably come into the port area, so I am not sure if it's worth the trouble.

pm vw337....he used to have one of those...if anyone has tricks for that door its him

thanks, PM sent

The Bose enclosure is tuned/ported, so anything you do to it keep that in mind. I have abused a few in the past with good results but the RSd's play lower naturally than speakers I have adapted to the bose enclosure so you may want to play with it a bit.

In your case DO NOT CUT the metal behind the door panel. the area is pretty tight tolerance and you will really gain nothing.

If you have some fab materials to work with, I suggest building the panel outward to cover any modifications you make to the bose box. I would secure the box to the door itself and silicone it strategically to keep it from vibrating against the metal or you can place foam behind it.

Sadly I have no real advice on this other than you need to build outward. Oh and the last bose enclosures I played with was with a set of boston pro 6.5's and they sounded like 10's in the ported chambers just not as overall loud. In this case I just built a mounting panel and added it to the bose pod, and cut away any enclosure plastic that would interfere in the mounting process. If you have access to metal and the box splits in half you may be able to fab a metal plate to rear mount in the enclosure and free up some front clearance, wouldn't advise wood inside as you don't have the space to sacrifice.


BTW mine was not an Audi 200, I had a 1994 90CSi similar but the interior was rethought quite a bit when they relabeled the chassis.

Awesome, I really appreciate your response. I thought about mounting them inverted in the enclosure but there is no way possible that is happening. I'd have to cut away the frame of the speaker to get it to fit.

So it looks like I'll just be making a ring for the speakers to mount to and then fiberglassing that to the enclosure. I will probably have to cut away at the door panels to make it fit, but thats OK. I can deal.

yeah 90's are definitely a completely different car (smaller chassis for one), but Audi builds all their stuff with the same basic concepts.

Thanks again!

-Chris

Modified the bose housing, made wooden ring to mount speaker to, glassed and siliconed that to the enclosure, now waiting for it to cure.

Then I can seal it all up and try it out! I have to work tonight at 6, so I might not get to that, but all that matters is that its coming along quite nicely.

I probably wont be able to get the door panels to go on at this point, but I'm confident that I'll be able to modify them somehow to accommodate.

Wooo got the first one finally done. The second will take much less time since I wont be guessing what I have to do.

Its not pretty, but it gets the job done. It will not be seen lol. I threw it on my home theater setup just for shits and ran some bass mechanik just to get the low low stuff and start pumpin some air. I found a couple of leaks this way (actually from holes in the wooden ring I made and where the wires come thru the box), and I siliconed them all up just now. In the morning I will hook it all up in the car and see what she can do! I'll be interested to hear how it sounds ported vs unported.


btw I had to mount it at an angle like that (logo not straight up and down) due to space constraints.

Tried it with and without port. Sounds like poop when too much air is coming thru the port, and it doesn't extend the low range or anything at all from what I can tell so I just glassed over the hole.

All I know at this point is that it sounds very punchy and is miles ahead of what my old door speakers could produce (of course). I feel that they would benefit from a lot more space however.