Phoenix Gold Phorum

Okay, so off i go this morning at 630am to drive couple hours away to go get a nice big oven. Get to location to grab oven and on way back, I notice my voltage meter dropping... dropping like a brick, 14.1, 13.8, 12.9, 11.1, music started to sound funny @/around 10.7... so i pull off highway, and park. Long story short I get tow back home as the car finally died completely...

Once home I call the folks I got this HO alt from last year (4/1/08- maniacmotors.com) Paid 388.00 for alt, and upon browseing thru their website, i see that there is a 1 year warranty on alt's. Well this sucks, it is 2/3 months over the warranty period. SO i called, and crossed fingers that given it was only a couple/few mnths (mind you i prolly didnt put it in until like 3/4 months after receiving it, as I was waiting for other things (and gumption) to fall into place before making that move to swap out alts.

SOOO maniac motors said that they can not warranty it, but happy to repair. AND/BUT w/O a legitimate bench test we/me/they wont really know what the story is.. could be Volt ragualtor, could be it burned up diodes, brushes, whatever... SHE did say that the alternator should be (should have) been installed w/ a brand new battery, or at least a fully charged one anyways- so I then let her know that that was one of the things I was waiting for to install the alt, was a new stinger SP1170. SHE said okay great so that is good, but if the battery at any time ever since got down below 12.5 that it would put a massive starin on alt and could burn it out prematurly...

SO the question is or the advice I am looking for is should I try to get this one repaired, or just simply go with a different make/mfg for HO alt, and all that stuff....

As it satnds now I have no ride, battery is out of it, and i tried putting in a fully charged battery i have downstairs and when i meter the battery when isolated it read 12.8/12.6, but when it is in the car, the meter i have on dash reads 11.6, then 11.5, and when it got to 11.2 I cut engine and pulled out the battery...

what would be someones insightfull comments, suggestion, or advice.

I have heard wranglers are good, and some others like ohio, iraggi, but heard good/ and maybe bad about mostly all i can think of. ANYBODY have any suggestions, or ideas for me... I still have the OEM alt, but the pully froze up so I could get bearings kit for 20 or so, but i dunno... just trying to think my way through this - but most of all upset that they still wont honor warranty even though it is like less than 12 months in car, and 14 months since they shipped it.

OH and one other thing: I just tried calling Ohio Alternator and the number is disconnected... any one know what the story is there too?

pls thx
matt

Does it have an internal regulator?

I'd take it to a parts store and have it tested.................

If the warranty is gone anyhow, pull it apart and take a look......couldn't hurt at this point...

I LOOOOOOVE my externally regulated WranglerNW alternator. I fried the regulator this spring after I washed my engine bay, then let it freeze overnight in the Calgary weather. The water got in some cracks, expanded, and busted it. It cost me $150 to overnight a new one, and I was on my way again. This alt has taken substantial abuse, had oil thrown at it, shrapnel, you name it... 4 years so far so good! No hiccups and works perfectly with all the stock stuff.

I had an Irragi before and I would not recommend them. Poor idle amperage and it died after only a few months. He was a dick too! The Wrangler guys are much nicer.

Can't say Wranglers are cheap, but you definitely get what you pay for!

I guess it also depends how much it will cost to fix. I would try getting it diagnosed at a local alternator shop first. It could just be a few parts in the regulator.

FuzzyHoNutz wrote:Does it have an internal regulator?

I'd take it to a parts store and have it tested.................

If the warranty is gone anyhow, pull it apart and take a look......couldn't hurt at this point...

believe it is internal reg.

& UPDATE:

Brought battery down to local shop, tested, charged, and tested again, and final result was that battery is no good.

MIGHT/COULD This ACTUALLY be: 1) the reason the car dropped DCV and died? If the car (w/ radio off, amps/fans/processors on but no load) on me??? WOULDN't the alt keep things going, even if bad battery? Or maybe I had too much load on system with driving the amps to just shy of max for apprx 30/45 min maybe slightly more)? 2250 was getting faily warm/hot... so I cracked the lid to floor (as i have done in past), and let it breath. I have noticed that sometimes car has a little sluggish time at starting some times )warm or cold weather)... (?)

SO I am after new battery, at least I KNOW that IS failing? (SHIT- and that's less older than the alt. bought from kid that had a pallet of them through DIY, some of you may even recall that thread last summer/fall.
he had like 60 each (or some odd ball amount) of two models 1170 and somethI was like one of the last to get one, as I had wanted to wait to see what some of the first had made out with them... huh!?

oh well

ANYONE HAVE AN OPTIMA 4-SALE?
Prolly want yellow
I am going to wrok on buddy of mine to see if I can get theirs... they got one along w/ me from last year and believe that have not used it as it didnt fit first tho-

As long as the car is running the alternator will keep the battery alive....I have a red top optima that is brand new....I even have the receipt showing I got it load tested

If you are after an Optima and it is a single battery get a red top. A red top is a starting battery and works much better in a single battery system. A yellow top is meant to be used as a second battery. I have a red top in the car that has been there for at lest three years now with no problems at all. From what I understand if you use a yellow top as a primary starting battery you will burn it up pretty quick.

Also, for the alt problems, I would go else where if I were you. If you are getting shitty service now why go back? Maybe find a local shop that can fix the current HO alt that you have.

thanks guys for all input...

I have friend (as stated above) with a stinger sp1170... which I might get either as a loaner, or she might sell cheap, but i know she is not using it...

BUT as with the Optima yellow top as tibbs stated that with it being a single battery application it would die quickly, could that be the same with the stinger sp1170 and being the only battery in car and maybe thats why i went through that battery in less than a year? Just dont want to make same mistake (using the sp1170 as primary/single battery) and burning through that in another year. Of course it would at least get me on the road again, but i can get battery if need be...

SO i am hearing & understanding that the red top is better for a single battery application?

Yellow tops were designed specifically for car audio, Stinger batteries are the same.

They are deep cycle batteries.....they are made to be fully drained without damaging the battery. They are not made for starting vehicles.

You would have much better luck installing a plain jane battery under the hood and adding the Stinger battery to the trunk area.

You will have much better luck using 2 batteries instead of one, you will also experience less of a voltage drop when you start cranking it.

so maybe grab a plane jane and get my friends stinger and put in trunk then?

sounds like a plan, but was trying to not to have to get new battery, but if that is what the best case scenario would/might be then I might/could be game for that...

Thanx

mhyde71 wrote:so maybe grab a plane jane and get my friends stinger and put in trunk then?

sounds like a plan, but was trying to not to have to get new battery, but if that is what the best case scenario would/might be then I might/could be game for that...

Thanx

You could use the Stinger as a temporary fix, and then buy a new battery when it better suits your budget. Then you will have 2 batteries when you buy the new one.

yeah yeah thanks,
that sounds like a plan.

Trouble I'm having is that the gurl that has that battery has/is not answering her phone nor returning msg's... which makes me a lil concerned because i know of her recent break up with this guy and he is a real "bullet neck" and threatened her, stole from her, tried getting security deposit from landlord behind her back when she threw him out... all sorts of BS she is going through with him, i hope she is okay!
I'm sure she is, but never has she not answered call or text from me... so i am kinda waiting to hear back from her, and concerned about her well-being until i hear back... tried her work (nothing), tried her house (which she has 5 kids) (nothing) tried her cell (nothing) and friends cell she hasnt heard/seen her, no one has seen her - this in itself makes me concerned (more so than my battery issue)...


BUT Back to regulary scheduled thread... Trying to decide red or yellow given the circumstances- only one battery w/ plans for second battery in near future, and the fact that there is another stinger sp1170 that she has that I know she would let me use or buy cheap just need to hear from her...

CRAZY SITUATION...
as i want to bring fam to park and go swimming and shit, but would hate to go get new yellow or red, and then get call from her,

AND still have yet to determine weather or not the alt is okay or not. I can go to local shop for testing of alt (with it still in car) but they're gonna wanna sell me a battery, but if alt is bad of course they wouldnt want to, but if alt proves okay, they'll wanna have me take battery out and sell me a new one. arrrggghhhh!

just venting i guess glad i have you guys to lean on

pm sent

update:

alt test proved alt is shot

SOOOO, tested the bat (shot), tested the alt (shot)

Can that really be? what would have caused both my alt and bat to get jammed up like this? running too much load or for too long or just crappy gear! (alt/bat)?!?!

This is certainly %ucked !

they fail at the same time alot, when one starts to go it puts more stress on the other. not sure in your case what made them fail in under a year with new parts. that sucks, id be pissed. ...i still dont trust jell batterys, when you charge them the jell can get bubbles in it and f up the battery if you are not careful with them. when you have a high output alternator in the mix with a tweeked regulator on it, it seems to me like a chain reaction would be easy to start. alt. starts overcharging batt, batt starts to fail from over charging, puts more stress on alt. witch causes alt. to fail. lots of people swear by jell batterys, they just arnt for me. hope that came out ok, just got home from 4th activitys ...just a litttle faded

kay cool I see, interesting and it ^^^ all makes sense. I bet that is the deal/situ with me.

This sux! AND YES YOU ARE Right... I am pissed, not only no music, but no rig right now to get to work, grocery etc... I'll be on road here shortly, but geese, what to do between now and then.

okay guys! Here's one for you all!

here's the deal... Got new alty (powerbastards.com a fitzall 220), and new battery installed. There were some modifications neccessary for the alt to fit, i.e. some hacksaw cuts to remove some parts to make it flush and mount properly, and when I sawed with the hack saw I held air on it so all shavings and shit would get blown off as they were falling... BUT here is the scenerio... 1st the alt "on the surface" looks/runs/sounds fine... but when/if I bump the stereo... the voltage increases... Increases upwards of 16.2 I think i saw... at idle it shows 14.2/14.4./14.6, etc.. but as i turn up the stereo it can actually get up over 16v, and then my meter in the dash barfs at me "Hi voltage Hi voltage Hi voltage"... and charging system light flickers when it hits/reaches over 16v... HOW CAN THAT BE?? why would the voltage increase to danger marks with the increase of power demand??

I called Powerbastards, and they said that perhaps when i was cutting/drilling/tapping, etc... that maybe some shavings fell inside the alt. and sticking to magnets... Well, 1) the aluminum wouldnt stick to magnets... and 2) i held air on the alt/spot of where I was cutting so it would blow any shavings off/away from alt.

Anyone else hear/have this issue...? where the demand for power increases and the voltage increases along with it to a dangereous level?? AND i say dangerous b/c ms series amps are rated uptio 15.5v. AND I saw that there was a few moments/seconds where it was more than 15.5, saw even 16v or better on some spikes.

my guess is maybe the regulator?? maybe not hooked up or working correctly/properly?? i dunno, never have i heard of this

I just went out and tried to see if I could get it to do it again, but sitting in parking lot it did not. It did jump up, but not to the 16.v (+) that I saw on the way into work this morning.
It jumped up to 15.7v just now sitting in the parking lot... and/but it is not something where it stays at 15.7... just spikes up to it and drops back down... i may take video and post up to show exactly what is happening.

Matt are you having this problem when the car is cold or hot
most h/o alts. will produce more power when cold and less when hot. As for the spikes this might be the disign of your regulator to cut the power as it hits 16.2 volt or 16 volts.
I would call the company and ask about the unit to find out what it is set at.
I still can't figure out why its all over the board though

is this happening at cetain rpms? most start to make power around the 2500-3000 and most don't make much power under that

kg1961 wrote:Matt are you having this problem when the car is cold or hot
most h/o alts. will produce more power when cold and less when hot. As for the spikes this might be the disign of your regulator to cut the power as it hits 16.2 volt or 16 volts.
I would call the company and ask about the unit to find out what it is set at.
I still can't figure out why its all over the board though

is this happening at cetain rpms? most start to make power around the 2500-3000 and most don't make much power under that

well it did it this morning on way to work, so maybe cold, but had driven for 10/15min and warmed up and actually did it more at/towards the end of my drive...

didi you buy this new or used? sound to me like its not 100%

I have never heard of blowing air across something while cutting. I understand holding a vacuum next to it but never blowing across it.

kg1961 wrote:didi you buy this new or used? sound to me like its not 100%

bought new as far as i know... funny thing is, I know www.powerbastards.com is out of FL, but alt was shipped to me from TN??
whatever that is about...

ttocs wrote:I have never heard of blowing air across something while cutting. I understand holding a vacuum next to it but never blowing across it.

yeah, my vacuum is bust, so I held the air up at the saw spot and blew all shavings off and onto floor, whilst the alt was in the vise. - Not good??? I could see that there was no shavings falling where I wouldnt want them to be...(?)

AND to top it off, i held air to the breather slots in he alt for a good 5 minutes after the cuts were done just for extra measure.

think maybe best bet is to go to an auto zone or whatever, and have them bench the alt, lets see about whether or not i can eliminate the alt or the vehicle at this point.

the tolerences between the rotor and magnet is very very fine to ensure max output. It would not take more then a couple of very small pieces of metal shavings to cause a problem. I remember once when I had to trim a little bit of a 4" speaker to get it to fit in the factory location. Normally I would use my tin snips but I was standing next to the grinder sooooo..... When we powered up the speaker we could hear a rubbing of some kind and when you pushed on it you could feel something dragging. Not sure how anythnig got sucked in as it was just a touch on the grounder to make it fit around a tab but it only took one or two shavings to do it.

Unless you had all the holes taped I would suspect that one er two pieces possibly got in there. See if blowing some more compressed air into the alt could shake loose what ever is in there. 15.5v is high and anything over it you could be risking other sensative electronics in the car.

okay update...

got back from having battery and alternator tested.

results are:

no load
14.2 / 9.7a

loaded (AC, High beams, and stereo bumping)
12.5v and (MINUS) -46.3a - thats right -46.3 amps

How can that be? and the guy at shop says he never seen that ... and we're scratching our heads together thinking that if it was indeed -46amps, wouldnt it just shut right down ???

but that answers (i think anyways) why/what is going on, as b/c there is a deficit of amps, it is trying to make it up in volts - right - ohms law possibly...

SOooo i am almost inclined to think there is a polarity issue, but if so, wouldnt it also show when not loaded??? how do you have 9amps not loaded and a defict (or minus) amps loded??

Arrrrgggghhhhh!!!!!!

HELP!