What NEW PG amps are worth a damn?

NewOldStock · Post by **NewOldStock** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:08 pm

So, please excuse the stupid about to come out off my fingers here...

What NEW PG amps are worth a damn?

Obviously I am talking Pre-AAMP amps, just to make that clear... Hopefully the new AAMP stuff will bring some audiophile life back to PG but thats a whole different thread

I dont have any experience with any new PG stuff and only cursory experience with the old (M/MS/MPS) stuff...

I mean, I have seen/heard that there were great amps after the ones I mentioned above, but at some point PG turned a corner and it wasnt for the better (otherwise the M/MS/MPS amps would be almost worthless compared to the equally awesome stuff put out today)

I have seen some Tantrum installs, but the guts pics dont make them look like anything special.

Lay some edumacation on me. Search, as helpful as it is sometimes, is equally as useless other times.

Post by **kg1961** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:12 pm

Zpa,zx,ti but these are now older
I have not tried anything newer yet

Post by **stipud** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:38 pm

All of their top of the line amps have used excellent circuit design and materials. The ZPA amps were the technological pinnacle of PG's heyday; unreliable but designed for the best possible SQ in every aspect (and 1 or 4 ohm bridged load capable). The ZX and Ti amps had extraordinarily versatile crossovers, while the Xenon line had in my opinion the best power regulation of any car audio amplifier to date; it can put full power into any load from 1-4 ohms, while still retaining the classic PG headroom.

ZPA, ZX, ZXti, Ti, and Xenon are all serious contenders. For example, check out this review:
http://soundbuggy.com/Eric/Car%20Audio/ ... index.html

Unfortunately the Xenons had first-run cold solder quality control issues that plagued them. If you get one that is reliable, hold on to it nice and tight! Fortunately PG doesn't use the same build house for any of their other amps... the latest made-in-china ones are their most reliable to date.

RSD is an excellent amp too, but it was only intended to be a middle-line Tantrum replacement. It has the circuit layout and sound quality of the top tier amps, only lacking in the crossover department compared to its predecessors. It has 18dB/oct crossover slopes instead of 24dB/oct, and no LPL port on the 4 channel amplifiers. Other than that they are sonically as good as any of the other top of the line models.

NewOldStock · Post by **NewOldStock** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:02 pm

excellent!

most everything I had heard lately was the PG had essentially turned into Sony Xplod.

Its good to see that not everything went the way of Ryval.

though I do have to admit that I miss the days when you were part of a special group to be able to own/run PG amps. (same goes with the old SoundStreams and Orions)

Before I started buying old PG amps, I had looked at the Roadster, that big-a$$ amp just makes me smile. How good it would look stripped down and painted to color-match the car its in.

Were/are the Roadsters any good? I havent heard or seen many installs with them. Just too expensive? just wondering, fishing for opinions.

Thanks for the input guys!

Post by **kg1961** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:04 pm

here is a good read on the roadster

ebay also has them for around 500us plus shipping now and again

http://www.caraudiomag.com/reviews/caep ... index.html

deathcloud · Post by **deathcloud** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:05 pm

I have heard they are excellent.

And this guy has an excellent install of a roadster. Still work in progress but u get the point. If I could afford one, it would deff complete my install. And save less room then my 2 xenon amps (x1200.1 and x200.4) But I like having headroom

http://phoenixphorum.com/the-beginning- ... 7-100.html

Post by **ttocs** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:12 pm

the new models are a solid amp from what I hear

Post by **stipud** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:56 pm

NewOldStock wrote:Its good to see that not everything went the way of Ryval.

For every MS there was a Sapphire
For every ZX/ZPA there was a QX
For every Ti/Xenon there was an Octane
For every RSD there was a Ryval

A low end model has always been a part of the PG product offering. They are good, solid amps that I would way rather run than any other generic amp of the same tier. Sure they don't live up to PG's best amps but they're not awful or anything.

Post by **ttocs** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:03 am

NewOldStock wrote:excellent!

Its good to see that not everything went the way of Ryval.

See now I heard that ryval is a "solid entry line" amplifier for someone "In the know"

. But from anyone that has actually bought one not so much

.................

Thankfully the list of PG items that I would NOT use is smaller then the list I would. Maybe we should make it easier and make a list of stuff we don't want...

Post by **stipud** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:26 am

ttocs wrote:See now I heard that ryval is a "solid entry line" amplifier for someone "In the know" . But from anyone that has actually bought one not so much .................

Ok, who do you know who has actually bought one? We haven't had a single complaint or issue on the forum that I can recall.

Post by **kg1961** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:35 am

Ok, who do you know who has actually bought one? We haven't had a single complaint or issue on the forum that I can recall.

I don't remembr on any forum a problem with them? I myself have never owned one as they just look cheap but they work

NewOldStock · Post by **NewOldStock** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:54 am

stipud wrote:
NewOldStock wrote:Its good to see that not everything went the way of Ryval.
For every MS there was a Sapphire
For every ZX/ZPA there was a QX
For every Ti/Xenon there was an Octane
For every RSD there was a Ryval

A low end model has always been a part of the PG product offering. They are good, solid amps that I would way rather run than any other generic amp of the same tier. Sure they don't live up to PG's best amps but they're not awful or anything.

I cant speak to anything but the MS/Sapphire, but Ryval just seems like a (again, SEEMS like) a cheap sony xplod amp. Where the Sapphire, while certainly not on the same level as an MS series, seemed like it was made with the same care/attention to detail.

I dont know from experience, so I agree that the Ryval comment was based on hearsay...

I just know that when I was a kid, I could never afford the MS or the Sapphire line amps (put myself through college with no debt). They were in a class of their own - they were the "low end" of the best. Only those that really loved car audio purchased them because there are/were other options with more power for less. The Ryval line seems like every other cookie cutter amp out there. Now everyone that wants to run stock speakers and dual 15" subs has a "phoenix gold system" (taken directly from Craigslist).

So, probably nothing wrong with the Ryvals, I guess my beef with them is that now that I CAN afford to buy the best amps ever made (Phoenix Gold) they have been diluted and the prestige has been lost to all but those few of us that remember.

Anyway... I am definitely encouraged to see that the new PG amps are so good! I LOVE that Roadster! if its really a limited edition run, that makes me want to get one and sit on it - just to have it... now I just need to figure out how to convince the wife that thats a good idea! LOL

Post by **stipud** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:01 am

So your only issue is the great amps you know and love are now more affordable?

I don't know about you, but I would rather buy the same quality gear for less money.

I assure you, Ryval is nowhere near the quality of Xplod gear, despite having a similar price.

Here's an Octane-R 8.0:4

And here's the equivalent Sony Xplod

I don't think I have to tell you why there's no comparison between the two

deathcloud · Post by **deathcloud** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:07 am

Wow did a 3 year old make that sony xplod amp?

Wow... i can't believe that. Looks disgusting.

Post by **stipud** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:15 am

For a far more fair comparison, here's a JL e-series 6x75 amp (two more channels than the Octane)

Strangely enough nobody bashes the JL e-series amps quite like Ryval and Octane, but they are damn near the same thing. And the Ryvals are usually a LOT cheaper than the JLs. For an low budget amp these things kick some serious ass. I think the only issue is cosmetics and perceived value, which is something that has not hit JL, since they have not changed their appearance much.

NewOldStock · Post by **NewOldStock** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:55 am

stipud wrote:I think the only issue is cosmetics and perceived value, which is something that has not hit JL, since they have not changed their appearance much.

Holy piece of Sony crap... I knew they were bad but hadnt bothered to check ampguts ... thats horrible.

And I agree, its percieved value. JL's price their amps as if they know that they are worth more than the Sony's (which they obviously are based on that etcha-sketch design and build quality) - where as the Ryvals are priced lower.

I am all for spending less money - heck, I am ALL for it, but I think your right, the percieved value of the Ryvals is low.

I dont know, maybe I am just stuck in the 90's car audio mentality... But, thats exactly why I started this thread. To get an education about the amps and company that I still love.

Post by **Bfowler** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:09 am

for reference. the WHOLE RYVAL line is VERY similar to the xs line back in late 90's.

the speakers sound smiler, the subs sound similar, the amps make similar power (except for a xs2500 bridged at 4ohms, ryval has a big 2ohm monoblock)

Post by **ttocs** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:32 pm

kg1961 wrote:
Ok, who do you know who has actually bought one? We haven't had a single complaint or issue on the forum that I can recall.

I don't remembr on any forum a problem with them? I myself have never owned one as they just look cheap but they work

Would you really expect someone to come on here, or another audio forum and ask why their ryval amp doesn't work anymore and how they can fix it? Again, they are disposable and anyone that considered them anything more didn't know what they were talking about. They are not worth repairing or holding on for more then a couple of years.

I also have never been burned by the xenon crap and do not plan on it.....

If the new series is not any better then ryval, xs or evan a saphire then I will officially say the new burning phoenix has turned gay and start with a new, quality line made by someone else or keep the search alive for good PG.

Hey morgan, what gear are you rockin in YOUR car? plan on keeping it the same and working for a while?

Post by **stipud** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:03 pm

ttocs wrote:Would you really expect someone to come on here, or another audio forum and ask why their ryval amp doesn't work anymore and how they can fix it? Again, they are disposable and anyone that considered them anything more didn't know what they were talking about. They are not worth repairing or holding on for more then a couple of years.

I also have never been burned by the xenon crap and do not plan on it.....

If the new series is not any better then ryval, xs or evan a saphire then I will officially say the new burning phoenix has turned gay and start with a new, quality line made by someone else or keep the search alive for good PG.

Hey morgan, what gear are you rockin in YOUR car? plan on keeping it the same and working for a while?

What a bunch of elitist baloney. Disposable amps... Jesus H Christ.

By PG's own numbers the Ryval and Octane series have the lowest failure rate. And no, that's not just because people are throwing their amps in the garbage... WTF. They are made by a build house in China that does excellent work (see JL and Focal amps). Xenon was made by a different build house in Korea that had it's issues, so you can't use that one amp to detract from the proven quality of these.

Many regulars on this very forum happily run Octane and Ryval gear, and we have not had a single issue yet. It's the kind of equipment I would gladly refer my friends and family to, without worrying about them breaking a priceless masterpiece.

Post by **Bfowler** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:06 pm

^no, i expect that they havnt had any problems with their ryval amp and havn had a need to look for info on it

dwnrodeo · Post by **dwnrodeo** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:33 pm

If the new series is not any better then ryval, xs or evan a saphire then I will officially say the new burning phoenix has turned gay and start with a new, quality line made by someone else or keep the search alive for good PG.

http://phoenixphorum.com/car-audio-mag- ... =zeropoint

gkitching

Another interesting fact .. That car won IASCA and USAC finals that year using XS series amps and Zeropoint speakers.
_________________
Greg Kitching

Hmm... I guess those PG "entry level" amps are pieces of shit for sure.

Post by **ttocs** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:54 pm

I still see XS amps that are working and for sale today, do you think there will be ANY ryval amps still surviving and people will still want them? That was probably the minimum that I would go with for pg if I was strapped for cash and didn't care.

Simple question, do you plan on keeping your xenon or ryval stuff as long as you would keep hold of a minty saphire or XS amp? Do you think it will last as long as a saphire or xs would?

deathcloud · Post by **deathcloud** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:20 pm

If my xenons "worked" I would keep these amps forever. 200rms x 4... I mean come on that shit is a powerhouse. No other 4 channel comes close. Thats what made me jump is the headroom and also the SQ it produced.

Post by **Eric D** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:07 pm

The JL E amps are pretty well made. Look at the buss bars, two layer circuit boards, and surface mount components.

The Octane looks to be a one layer board. I don't know the facts on Octane reliability, but I do know one layer boards don't tend to be as reliable. With no vias to hold solder between layers of the boards, one layer board amps fall victim to vibration (worse if it were mounted to a sub box). Larger components like caps and transformers start breaking loose on the board and over time crack their traces on the underside.

XS amps are built with the same quality as MS, ZX, M, or other good PG amps. They just lack gold plating, have cheaper terminals, less components and run at lower voltages.

Post by **ttocs** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:20 pm

deathcloud wrote:If my xenons "worked" I would keep these amps forever. 200rms x 4... I mean come on that shit is a powerhouse. No other 4 channel comes close. Thats what made me jump is the headroom and also the SQ it produced.

Dude if this line, ryval and the octanes were any good we would all keep them for ever.

What NEW PG amps are worth a damn?

What NEW PG amps are worth a damn?

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