Totally different direction for install

deathcloud · Post by **deathcloud** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:25 pm

Ok guys. So it is sad to say... but... I am going to go in another direction for my install.

AKA taking out PG stuff and replacing it with non pg stuff

I had plans of doing a xenon 1200.1 and xenon 200.4 but I am going to do something else.

First off I switched from the rsdc12 sub to the SSA icon 12 2ohm dvc sub. This thing is massive. I was so surprised I nearly shit myself. It was sooooo heavy. and the sourround..... ommffgggg. I am so excited. But I had to put it back in the box in came in due to it being my b day present. However my bday is 2 days after xmas

so not too long.

Now the next thing is the problems I have had with the xenon line. My first mistake was trying out the xenons. If I woulda read about the problems I wouldn't have even tested the waters of this amp. So I have been doing extensive research. I have been reading many forums/threads and getting info on a sub amp that will accommodate my icon very nicely. I fell in love with sundown amps. I have read so many great reviews. Excellent build quality. Great numbers. And the good thing is they rate their voltage at 12 volts. So you get extra headroom

Now the one I plan on getting is the SAE-1200D v2 which is going to be a killer amp. Some of them do 1500 watts!!!! And the price? 280 bucks. Wow... really? need I say more?

It seems too good to be true but they say these amps are just machines. Handle anything u throw at it.

So I plan on running my icon with the sae-1200D at 1ohm. Should fit it nicely.

Box. It is going to be 2.24 cu ft tuned to 32 hz. I am excited about the box building process as well. I am planning on using birch plywood. And should look nice via carpeting the box as well.

Dimensions are as follows:
Box bottom plate: 23 x 19
Box top plate: 23 x 19
Box left plate: 18.25 x 12.5 x 18.25 x 12.5
Box Right Plate: 17.5 x 12.5 x 17.5 x 12.5
Box Back Plate: 23 x 12.5
Box Front Plate 20 x 12.5
Port L1: 15.25 x 12.5 x 15.25 x 12.5
Port L2: 9 x 12.5

Cut angle 90

Box volume 2.24 cu ft
Tuned Frequency 31.7 hz

It says 31.7 but it will raise after the sub displacement.

As for the 4 channel I am at a dead end. I still have the PG rsd comps in the front so I may just wait till the new line comes out but I don't really want to wait that long. So I might just buy a 2 channel for the front in the meantime and wait for the high end new pg amp 4 channel to run the front. I just really like the look so far of what morgan has shown.

But yea then I am going to save up for damplifier pro as well and do the doors/trunk and save for more and do the whole floor of my car as well. I want super quiet ride

But yea I am excited for my new build and hope it will be the best I ever had and I won't have to change anything anymore.

Post by **Bfowler** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:00 pm

maybe you should wait for the new PG

KUB3 · Post by **KUB3** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:40 am

It's really amazing how some car audio kit has become very bloated over the years. I recently picked up a few NIB Celestion AD15" subs. These were very well built in their day, with cast alloy baskets, decent sized magnets and a very solid appearance. Yet they weigh around half of todays subs! A DLS 10" weighs more!

audiophyle_247 · Post by **audiophyle_247** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:51 am

lol, wait until you hear the Icon.

Did you fit the measurements for your vehicle? or is that what a program told you?

I would highly recommend you double layer the front face, you now know how heavy they are and wait until you see that cone move. A 1" front at a minimum is almost required for these guys.
Just make the box an inch wider (front to back) to compensate for the double front baffle. Internal volume wont change, and the port will become an inch longer. (All boards running back to front need to be an inch longer)
That will drop the tuned freq a hair, but after sub displacement should put it right back to the 31hz like it is now.

Pillow · Post by **Pillow** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:12 pm

... My opinion. Run the Xenons until they burn down. Hell they are paid for why not!

From what I have picked up they are hit or miss. Run strong forever or die young.

I think it was a smart move to switch subs. PG just doesn't really have a monster sub out right now... Maybe an old Ti, but then the competition in that segment is better and cheaper today. Lots of great choices available.

deathcloud · Post by **deathcloud** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:13 am

Yea but here is the thing. I have to pay 185 to fix the xenon 200.4, then pay for shipping to ship the x1200.1 back to get it fixed again. I am just over it. I really want to just shoot the amps to pieces. Break em. For making me spend so much money into POS amps. Never again. I am doing tons more research and I have fell in love with the SAE-1200 v2 from sundown. I am excited. And it is stable into 1 ohm.

dwnrodeo · Post by **dwnrodeo** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:57 am

deathcloud wrote:Yea but here is the thing. I have to pay 185 to fix the xenon 200.4, then pay for shipping to ship the x1200.1 back to get it fixed again. I am just over it. I really want to just shoot the amps to pieces. Break em. For making me spend so much money into POS amps. Never again. I am doing tons more research and I have fell in love with the SAE-1200 v2 from sundown. I am excited. And it is stable into 1 ohm.

Before you decide to break your Xenon's give them to me.

NewOldStock · Post by **NewOldStock** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:07 am

The sundowns are good stuff, you wont be disappointed.

I also agree on the SSA ICON - great subs. Prep for the weight and pounding. T-nuts, double wall mounting and bracing.

deathcloud · Post by **deathcloud** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:13 am

audiophyle_247 wrote:lol, wait until you hear the Icon.

Did you fit the measurements for your vehicle? or is that what a program told you?

I would highly recommend you double layer the front face, you now know how heavy they are and wait until you see that cone move. A 1" front at a minimum is almost required for these guys.
Just make the box an inch wider (front to back) to compensate for the double front baffle. Internal volume wont change, and the port will become an inch longer. (All boards running back to front need to be an inch longer)
That will drop the tuned freq a hair, but after sub displacement should put it right back to the 31hz like it is now.

I think I know what u mean. but is it really necessary? I guess I will do it because I don't want my box to fall apart and I want it to sound the best that it can sound.

deathcloud · Post by **deathcloud** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:20 am

Oh and the dimensions that I got was I measured the trunk gap and the gap is 16 inches verticle. And side gap is like 28. So it is wide but kinda tall. I think I planned my box height being like 14 inches tall I believe.

audiophyle_247 · Post by **audiophyle_247** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:43 am

The more solid the box the better, and the icon will really put that box to the test. Weight alone is enough to warrant a double thickness mounting face.
The excursion capability of the Icon will put even more force on the mounting face too, this is no ordinary subwoofer.
If its worth doing, its worth doing right.

I was curious about the dimensions because 23" wide is not very wide, not when most trunks are 30"+ wide. Widening the box would also allow it to be shallower & not so square. What vehicle do you have?

Post by **Eric D** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:51 am

What are your goals for your system? SQ, or SPL?

PG makes other good stuff. Stick with the ZX amp you have or get some more. I would take a ZX or a Ti amp over a Xenon any day.

deathcloud · Post by **deathcloud** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:04 pm

I want more of a SQ but kinda SPL. Not too crazy. Hence why I am sticking to 1 12 inch subwoofer.

I would stick to zx500 but that isn't enough powerful.

Post by **Eric D** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:06 pm

Does the 12in woofer have dual voice coils?

If so, run a ZX500 on each coil. That should be beyond plenty of power.

deathcloud · Post by **deathcloud** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:09 pm

Ok so here is a pic so u can see what I am working with.

Now keep in mind the verticle gap is about 16 inches. but to fit it in with ease I wanna shoot for 15 inches tall. Then it is about 35 inches wide. Once it is in the trunk it has about 40 inches from the left to the right wheel that sticks out.

What would you do audiophyle 247? Maybe you can give me a box design that you think would be good.

a pic would also be nice with all the bracing that needs to be done. u would be the coolest!

deathcloud · Post by **deathcloud** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:33 pm

Eric D wrote:Does the 12in woofer have dual voice coils?

If so, run a ZX500 on each coil. That should be beyond plenty of power.

I would do that but then again it is around 250 for 1 zx500, then I would have to make sure they are gain set matched. And for 250 I would rather have the sae-1200 cuz I don't want to have too many amps in my install and pay the little extra to get it.

Post by **Eric D** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:57 pm

Matching the gain is not an issue. Just getting the gain control knobs at the same point visually would be plenty good. Subs are very resilient to less than exact voltage on one coil or another. As it is, the dual coils in subs are not matched themselves. The coil on the inside is not as long as the coil on the outside is, so its lower impedance will naturally draw more current even from perfectly matched amplifier sources.

But, you do have a point on less amps overall is better. Plus, you would get a lot more power off a class D amp than a pair of ZX500s, while draining less from your cars electrical system.

Post by **Bfowler** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:11 pm

also remember...just because a box fits vertically in your trunk...doesnt always mean it will fit through the trunk opening...ask how i know this

Post by **Eric D** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:17 pm

Bfowler wrote:also remember...just because a box fits vertically in your trunk...doesnt always mean it will fit through the trunk opening...ask how i know this

That must mean you are just not pushing hard enough!

I watched a dumbass use a sledgehammer to get his box in, by beating on both the box and the car.

Another guy backed his car against a building or tree to wedge the box in. I wish I was there to see it, but sadly I missed out. He trashed the box and the car doing it.

deathcloud · Post by **deathcloud** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:22 pm

Yea I measured the gap and 16 inches vertical isn't in the inside of the trunk it is from the gap and even to the corners of the trunk opening. I wanted to make sure I wouldn't have a problem so that is why the max height of the box is 15 so I can easily fit it in. Hopefully this makes sense.

audiophyle_247 · Post by **audiophyle_247** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:45 pm

I generally charge for detailed blueprints

but this is a quick sketch of what I would do.

Internal volume is 1.83 cuft net and tuned to 30hz.
Assuming 3/4" wood thickness, & the box height at 15".
Note the double layer face. The rest of the measurements is nothing a little 5th grade math cant figure out. lol

Such a box would show you everything the sub is capable for, from crisp tight bass to gut hurting lows, and more volume than you will ever need.

Pillow · Post by **Pillow** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:33 pm

Is that considered a t line? Or just a rectangular port?

Well if the Xenons are toast anyway then why not start over!

Granted you do have a ZX350 which is a good amp. Sounds like you have 1 ZX500???

Maybe:
ZX500 Front
ZX350 Rear
D Class Sundown or RDs1200.1 Sub

Just a thought, but use what you got first and save the cash.

deathcloud · Post by **deathcloud** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:47 am

Here is the thing that sucks! I gave my uncle the zx350 to power the rsdc12 sub. The sub pounds off of that zx350 it impressed me!

The zx500 is still with my dad in cali. I am trying to convince him to ship that out to me along with the ti600.2. I would keep one of the 2 chans to run the front. I don't know what I want to do for a 4 channel yet. I might just wait for the new 4 chans from PG.... I would get the sundown 100x4 cuz I know they are well built and have read great reviews. However I still want to go PG with the new amps that are coming out!