Phoenix Gold Phorum

Hey guys..

Got a mate over at MEA (in aus) who has a set of the PG Ti Elite 5 comp set and a pair of the 6" midbass forming a 3 way set, which i'm interested in purchasing off him..
These would need to be run semi-active, which is my intention..
If i get them, the speakers will be run off 2 PG Tantrum 600.4's bridged (1 per side) so power is not an issue..

I've done a quick search and couldn't find anything specific..
So i have a few questions..

- What is the going "rate" of these speakers (second hand) nowadays?
As neither him nor I know what they are worth..

- How do they sound?
My understanding tells me that the Ti Elites were based on the morel speakers, but do they sound anything like the Morel?

- Is it possible to get another pair of midbass?


Thanks for any help and feedback guys..

Used they run about $250-350 for a comp set, and $80-100 for a set of midbasses.

They are VERY similar to Morel speakers, the only difference being the 4 ohm impedance and the crossover network (designed by PG).

You can get similar 8 ohm Morel drivers, but they don't work with the PG crossover:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=297-084
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=297-086

The only 4 ohm Morels I know of are the ridiculously priced Supremes:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=287-036

Damo
(I should've know that you were gonna hound "fury" for these :p hahaha)
Once you go 3 way, you never go back, hey

I've heard reports that the 5" comps on their own dont sound all that crash hot, however... the 9" driver from the 9-5-1 Elites brought EVERYTHING
up to speed. Sound was meant to be awesome. It lifted up the front stage dynamics and all kinds of jazz.

How this lot will sound with a 6"... I'm not too sure, dude! Never really demo'ed 6" PGs, so you're on your own :p

i've already been 3 way.. twice...

- 3 way morel (elate 6, cdm54 + supremo) active..
- 3 way focal (100kp + 165kbe) semi active..

i also heard a elite 6 comp set and it wasnt that great... i think install played a part in that...

anyone else?

I just bought a TI961 myself. I had a TI951 but the voice weren´t all that beefy that´s why i´m going with the TI6 instead of the TI5 now. Most important is the enclosure u have those speakers in. They need a very exact sized one. The TI9 needs something from 10,5 to 11,5 liters sealed. That´s the only number i´ve in my head now.

I agree on the 3-way after doing so with my diamond hex.

Those are great speakers and down there with the exchange rate taken into account I am afraid to know what they are worth. It seems anything pg related is 3x the msrp there 10 yrs later........

Compared to your Dynaudio and Morel setups I don't think you will be floored with them, but they are nearly as good. The 6" really requires an enclosure to make decent midbass, though as a standalone midbass (instead of doubling as a midrange) they should do better, and you can always feed them more power.

Keep in mind the Elites were designed to be mounted off-axis unlike your Morels which work better aimed directly at the listener.

joerg - interesting that you say that... why would the 5's not be that good on vocal do you know? crossover? where can i find specs for these exact enclosures?

ttocs - the set i have in mind is already here in aus, and in storage..

stipud - so they are nearly as good but not quite? thats depressing as i'm very happy with the Dyn 2 way at present.. was thinking of grabbing the PG fronts (and maybe a Ti sub) to make full PG stereo..
with a 5" midrange, i'd probably go either dual 6's or 9's.. as you linked earlier.. off axis is handy!



Thanks for your advice so far guys... I'm now at a crossroad as to whether i do or dont..

I am also doing a Diamond Hex Pro 3way and it's sweeeeeeeeeeet

The dyn 2-way vs the elite 3-way is a tough comparison that I can't really comment on.

However, in the stereos I have listened to, I preferred the comparable dyn 2-way against the elite 2-way, though I have not done an A/B test in the same car, so the differences may be down to install. The Elites were far cheaper for me so that's what I run in my car.

People who complain about the lack of midbass in the Elites also seem to be the type to like heavy bass... they RTA flat to 60Hz in my car, with only a 3dB drop at 50Hz, and that's running free air in my doors with no sound treatments. The 9M's offer a more "live" feeling with a much more bloated bottom end that most people seem to prefer. If you like the punchy rock concert effect in your car then I highly recommend them.

The Morel supremo tweeters are definitely better than the elite tweeters, but of course they need to be mounted on-axis. The Elate mids are nearly identical to the Elites.

Hmm.. interesting...

stipud wrote:The Morel supremo tweeters are definitely better than the elite tweeters, but of course they need to be mounted on-axis. The Elate mids are nearly identical to the Elites.

I learnt something new today! VERY interesting indeed.

Damo, I was shattered that you got rid of your Morel 3 ways! If you're going 3 way again... GO SUPREMOOOOOOOO! :p

stipud wrote:The dyn 2-way vs the elite 3-way is a tough comparison that I can't really comment on.

However, in the stereos I have listened to, I preferred the comparable dyn 2-way against the elite 2-way, though I have not done an A/B test in the same car, so the differences may be down to install. The Elites were far cheaper for me so that's what I run in my car.

People who complain about the lack of midbass in the Elites also seem to be the type to like heavy bass... they RTA flat to 60Hz in my car, with only a 3dB drop at 50Hz, and that's running free air in my doors with no sound treatments. The 9M's offer a more "live" feeling with a much more bloated bottom end that most people seem to prefer. If you like the punchy rock concert effect in your car then I highly recommend them.

The Morel supremo tweeters are definitely better than the elite tweeters, but of course they need to be mounted on-axis. The Elate mids are nearly identical to the Elites.

I agree....
I owned both a ti elite 6 and dyn 6. THe dyn was more accurate and had far more midbass from 200hz to 80hz, 6.5"ers below 80hz suck anyway. The only complaint I have with both the drivers is the large VC, I feel it in every large VC driver in the 3" range by morel and dyn all havea laid back sound that is missing clarity and details that can be found in drivers of the same quality. I felt the dyn md100 was a little crisper and bolder than the elite but both laid back compared to other tweets I've used because of there top end drop off in response.

3 way vs 2 way.....both have there costs and benefits.

All I will get into here is if your not experienced in installer and dont have some one in the area that knows what their doing stay with 2 way it's hard enough to it right that way.



FYI its all about getting the phase right.

i have access to some of the best installers in the country, and am pretty confident in doing 3 way right as i've tried it before..


bdubs767.. interesting points you raise about the dyn vs PG/morel speakers in terms of sound.. gives me something to think about..

I had the Dyn system 240MKII and sold them to get a a set of the Ti6 Elites, I miss the 2 way Dyns. In my mind I thought that going from a Dyn set to basically a Morel set that there wouldn't be much of a difference. The mid is where the biggest difference was at. I also didn't have my Elite in a sealed enclosure though.

Other then that I have no issues with the Elites.

very mixed thoughts on the Elites..

if i went the elites, i'd be going for dual 6" midbass, or a pair of 8/9's...


not sure whether its worthwhile changing from Dyn then...

In a 2-way set up, Elites vs Dyns, I prefer the Dyns. The over all sound is more transparent, Esp in the bass/mid-bass region. Their tweets were the best I've ever heard. I've heard things w/those I've never noticed in a recording before.

I would add a set of midbasses to your existing dynaudios personally.

What made you change from your original Morel supremo setup? That's probably the best on paper, at least the tweeters....

The dyn set i have now has 7" midbass and 1.1" tweeter.. wouldn't i be better off adding the midrange & 3 way crossover?

long story short, i changed as i was "promised" a killer 2 way setup that contained MW160's, Focal T121 and custom passive crossovers..
and yes, my old 3 way morel setup was my favourite.. Elate 6, cdm 54 & supremo tweeters.. active off 2 PG Xenon 100.4 & Xenon 1200.1 running an IDMAX 12.. got ripped off good and proper..

At the end of the day, i'd be better off sticking with the Dyn 2 way and possibly adding a supremo tweeter down the track yes?

if your going active buy this........

http://madisound.com/catalog/product_in ... ts_id=1596
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/produc ... ts_id=8512

No set on the market will compare for a two way. Not one. Cross over at 3khz 24db slopes.

I've owned the w18nx it blows away the dyn md160, they cant even compare. It is far more accurate, clear, brings out all details, not the warm muddy sound dyn has, and the midbass is the best I ever heard out of a 6.5" driver. I wish I never sold those.........

As for the tweet a smaller dome tweet IMO is ALWAYS better in a car because of it's off access performance. If you want more info on that look for npdangs post on DIYMA.

But I will also say this Im on a whole new wave of thinking for speakers in cars....

I've been MIA for a while from here so none of the new guys know me, but I literally owned 20 plus high end speaker set up from 2 ways to 3 ways in kicks in door in dash ect ect

I beleive now I've found what works best....a full range driver up high and a midbass to handle from 60hz to 250hz. In my next car for my set up $ not an object I want the best system possible but I will be running this in my car.....
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/produc ... ts_id=1386

The full range in the A pillars as far back as possible playing from 250hz to 20khz and the woofers in the kicks or floor doing 50hz to 250hz.

bdubs767 wrote:But I will also say this Im on a whole new wave of thinking for speakers in cars....

I've been MIA for a while from here so none of the new guys know me, but I literally owned 20 plus high end speaker set up from 2 ways to 3 ways in kicks in door in dash ect ect

I beleive now I've found what works best....a full range driver up high and a midbass to handle from 60hz to 250hz. In my next car for my set up $ not an object I want the best system possible but I will be running this in my car.....
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/produc ... ts_id=1386


The full range in the A pillars as far back as possible playing from 250hz to 20khz and the woofers in the kicks or floor doing 50hz to 250hz.

I'm curious to hear what the 3" fullrange and the 8" midbass would sound like. I don't have a good enough daily driver to do a good install in right now, but I'm always planning my next stereo. I plan on running a 3-way passive/active setup with the highpass speakers on axis and the midbass/bass speakers in the doors. Your idea sounds easier and cheaper.

If i went 3 way, it'd be semi active..
2 way active.. controlled by an alpine CDA-9887..

hmm..

i've been told that altho they like power, the 6's can only really play down to ~100Hz with a sharp rolloff below that.. is that the case?

These may be coupled with 4x PG Tantrum 10's.. will they blend well?