Phoenix Gold Phorum

Hey there guys, gotta quick question to ask about changing up my install.

Currently, I have a 2006 Hyundai Azera and I have 2 10" Phoenix Gold Xenon subs in a sealed enclosure and the trunk has been walled off. The subs sound great, but of course...I want more.

I'm thinking of upgrading to the RSdC102's. I'm thinking of switching to a ported enclosure and my question is this. Do the ports need to face the same direction as the subs fire, or can the subs fire towards the back on one side of the wall and the ports fire up at the rear deck behind the wall? Would this cause any issues with sound quality???

Before I do any upgrades...do you think I should try a ported box with my Xenons???

This is how it looks right now...

they SHOULD fire the same way, but its not then end of the world if they dont. lots of home theater subs fire different ways, but usually some box design fixes are needed for the waves to align properly.

if you want more output, i would go for the rsdc's.

they are way more efficient, AND have much more output in the 50-70 range which is the range your ears perceive as being louder.

rsdc's all so need smaller box, so maybe you could port them too!

Thanks for the feedback, greatly appreciated.

How much better are the RSdC's compared to the Xenons?

the are about 4-5 db MORE efficient, so on the same power you will see some solid gains in overall volume. the xenons have more low end bias, but the rsdc's still dont have a problem with it. that just happens to be the xenon's specialty

you will find the rsdc's blend MUCH better with you front stage.


and you know those songs that SEEM like they should slam, but sort of...didnt with the xenon? that will go away too

yeah...i definitely love the low end capability of the Xenons, and you're right about about some songs seemingly not having that punch. Currently, I've got my sound stage set with the fronts cut off at 80 Hz (hi) and the subs cut off at 80 Hz (low). My rear speakers are cut off at 100 Hz (hi). The sound is great on most songs and the bass seems to wrap around you, but there are some songs that just seem to lose a bit of oomph.

Now you got me lookin forward to the RSdC's. Even if the lower portion of the frequency range isn't their forte...you can help them out with box design to make up for that.

The next question would be...are the RSdC's better in a sealed or ported enclosure?

The Xenons really do best crossed over at 60Hz or lower, with midbass drivers installed up front. They have next to nothing above 60Hz, which is why you are noticing that 60-80Hz gap. But man oh man are they ever an amazing sub on 20-60Hz. It's too bad the Xenon components lost a ton of output below 150Hz... you could never get them to blend with each other.

RSDCs play flat in a sealed setup. .5-.6cuft per sub is all you need for the 10's, or 1-1.25cuft for the 12's. They are very loud in ported setups, but unless you want to rattle teeth loose, I would probably stick to sealed.

You're absolutely right on that. When I have the subs crossed off at 63 Hz (available setting on HU), they sound SWEEEEET!!!

At 80 Hz, they don't sound bad and it probably doesn't help that I haven't put any sound deadening material in the car yet either. For the most part the subs do a good job of blending with the Kappas, with most music. However, there are some songs that you can clearly hear the subs struggle with the upper bass frequencies closer to that 80 Hz mark.

What would happen if the RSdC's are put into 1 cu. ft. or 1.25 cu. ft.?

I know what you mean about rattling teeth loose. I put a buddy's porte box with some Vega V-Max's and it sounded like ti would rip my car in half (running off my 600.1).

If your box is already 1.25cuft per sub I recommend increasing the hole diameter and running RSDC 12's sealed. The 10's in that box will be a bit boomier... they do much better in smaller boxes IMO. Of course if you are married to 10's, you can always decrease the airspace by taking it up with blocks of wood or styrofoam.

Oh no...the current box I have is sealed and each sub is sitting in .75 cu. ft. I was just wondering what it would do if the RSdC's were in 1 cu. ft. or maybe even 1.25 cu. ft. I spoke with the PG tech once and he said if I put the Xenons in 1.25 cu. ft....they would hit lower, but I was worried that I would lose the output if I did that.

allmet33 wrote:Oh no...the current box I have is sealed and each sub is sitting in .75 cu. ft. I was just wondering what it would do if the RSdC's were in 1 cu. ft. or maybe even 1.25 cu. ft. I spoke with the PG tech once and he said if I put the Xenons in 1.25 cu. ft....they would hit lower, but I was worried that I would lose the output if I did that.

A bigger box has less vacuum damping, so your sub moves more freely on low end bass. The Xenons and the regular RSDs do well in large boxes like this, or even "infinite baffle" (walling the subs into the car, and using the entire trunk as airspace). The RSDC's on the other hand are geared for small boxes and lose a lot of their tightness and musicality in anything bigger.

Okay...so when I do upgrade to the RSdC's...the optimum enclosure I should shoot for is .5 cu. ft. I'll probably see how they sound in the current enclosure (.75 cu. ft.) just for grins.

With some of today's music, you need that tight response to keep up with the quick bass transisitons.

.75 should still be ok. Let us know how you like them!

will do! thanks for all the input.

.75 is fine for em! maybe put in a little block of foam in it to drop the space down a bit

Well...that's what I'll shoot for. I think when I get the RSdC's, I'll change the trunk up a lil bit to make it look cooler anyway. I may even set it up so that the subs fire down since I'll be keeping them in a sealed box. Maybe give them 3-4" clearance from the floor of the trunk, then flush mount the amp on the box facing out...hmmmmmm, now the ideas are rollin!

that should pretty much kickass, take pictures!

Will do...gotta start getting all my ideas together so I can make this one stand out without being over the top. Thanks for the support, insight and feedback...it's greatly appreciated.

fellas, i have another question for you...

will the xenon 600.1 put out enough power to run 2 RSdC 102's???

history on this amp...initially i was trying to run a single sub set up and i fried about 5 subs. The first sub fried was a Xenon 10D2 (PG tech told me it could handle the amp). for giggles, I got old of an Audiobahn DUB100 (600 watts rms) and it lasted all of about 15 mins. I went to Alpine and tried the Type-R...it lasted about a month. I then proceeded to try a Pioneer SPL sub rated at 800 watts rms, well it met the same fate as the previous subs...fried. Pioneer replaced it on the strength that i was running a 600 watt amp to it, get the replacement sub in...it fried too. finally, a call to PG and the tech tells me...oh, btw...the xenon amps actually are under-rated and crank out more power than stated. he finally tells me to try putting two subs on the amp of at least 400 watts rms each. thus...my dual xenon 10D2 set up. ever since i've had them connected to the 600.1...no problems whatsoever and trust me...I crank the holy hell out of it when it's hot out and the windows are down.

anyway, back to the orginal question...should the 600.1 pack enough oomph to push 2 RSdC102's???

It definitely should. They have been known to put out 800w or so on average, which is pretty much perfect for them.

Though I wonder, with so many blown subs, what are you doing wrong? None of those subs should have fried on that amp. Do you have your gains and bassboost cranked? If you are feeding them a clipped signal they will be much more likely to fail.

http://www.bcae1.com/2ltlpwr.htm

well...initially, i was running the signal to the amp off the signal coming from the OEM amp in the car (dumb move, I know). so i was asking for trouble there. that was before i was able to put in the aftermarket hu. however, once i got that in and ran rca's back to the amp...i don't know what i was doing wrong. all of my settings are pretty much the same. i know if it's a clipped signal, then the dual sub set up would meet the same fate as the single subs.

i covered gain and bass boost settings with the pg tech when i talked to him about getting it all set up. trust and believe...i was at a total loss when it came to trying to figure out why the subs were frying (with the exception to the 1st one).

one thing i made sure to do was match (as closely as possible) the gain control to the 2 volt setting that my hu is kicking out at the rca outputs. i am also considering adding my sld44 to the mix for good measure. would this be a good move?

yeah, it should help a lot! xenon's like a hot signal. they will happily take 13 volts!

i'll be sure to add it when i re-do everything with the RSdC's for sure then.

question...when i set up the line driver...do i match the gain control like i did with the amp or do i crank it up. what would the protocol be for setting the gain control on the line driver???