Phoenix Gold Phorum

at 4 ohms at 12.5 plz

Why? Whats the point in that? It was useful to competitors back in the day with the "cheater amps" but is totally irrelevant today. I would rather know what my amp is gonna do when the car is running. Whats an extra 30% in power anyways, nothing.

gotta agree with scott here... I dont see much point in a flat 4-ohm 12.5v rating. (though I did love being able to run an entire system from a single MPS amp)

I would like to see (on everyone's amps, not just PG) a layout/grid of:
voltage | ohm-load | power | THD

but thats just for comparison purposes... and would only be useful if they all measured the same way at the same crossover point with exactly the same load value, etc...

Didn't PG rate a lot of the classic amps at 14.4V as well as 12.5V with different loads and bridged and not bridged?

There is obviously some confusion over amp ratings. Old schoolers are used to the old ratings. Industry guys are now used to the CEA ratings and newbs are still swayed by MAX ratings. Ah, such is life. While I think it's annoying that the so-called "standards" aren't universally used, I think it's important for customers to have some understanding of what the rating really means and that not all ratings are created equal. However, this isn't a basic topic and it's hard to really, really know what a rating means unless you've studied amplifiers so I guess I can't really blame anyone for being confused or annoyed over how amps have been, are and will be rated.

Did you read the Ti1500.1 spin off thread where Morgan spent a lot of time explaining the ratings for the amps (along with the Audio Precision graphs)? There is some good info there, but I suspect it's not info you're after but simply a request to rate the amps the same way the did back in the day.

It would be nice to see amps rated at 4 ohms. I was always told 4 ohms is most common for car audio.
12.5V rating is not really needed.

Rating the amps at 4 ohms 12.5V these days is pretty much business suicide. If someone sees a similarly priced amp that puts out 1500Wx1 @ 4 ohms/14.4V and another that puts out 1100Wx1 @ 4 ohms/12.5V they will probably go with the higher rated amp. Especially if they are new to car audio. Rating the amps at 12.5V is like giving horsepower numbers at less than full throttle. Sure, it is going to underrate the total power output, but when comparing apples to apples, people are going to purchase the one with the higher power rating(all other differences negligible). Yes, back in the day it was cool to show up with an amp rated at 25Wx2 @ 4 ohms/12.5V and blow their higher rated amps out of the water, but honestly that time has gone.

guess im just old

ZTwenty8SSR wrote:It would be nice to see amps rated at 4 ohms. I was always told 4 ohms is most common for car audio.
12.5V rating is not really needed.

All amps are rated into 4 ohm.

Except class D monoblocks as they perform best into a 2 or 1 ohm load. Running a PG class D monoblock at 4 ohm is fine, but its not using them to their full potential.

fuzzysnuggleduck wrote:Didn't PG rate a lot of the classic amps at 14.4V as well as 12.5V with different loads and bridged and not bridged?

There is obviously some confusion over amp ratings. Old schoolers are used to the old ratings. Industry guys are now used to the CEA ratings and newbs are still swayed by MAX ratings. Ah, such is life. While I think it's annoying that the so-called "standards" aren't universally used, I think it's important for customers to have some understanding of what the rating really means and that not all ratings are created equal. However, this isn't a basic topic and it's hard to really, really know what a rating means unless you've studied amplifiers so I guess I can't really blame anyone for being confused or annoyed over how amps have been, are and will be rated.

We did rate ZX, XS, Tantrum and a few others at 12.5 volts. But frankly these were just phony competition ratings.

For example, ZX450 was rated at 18 x 4 at 12.5 volts. This caused a lot of confusion back in the day, we were always getting emails and calls about this.

not to pull hairs but imo if u call a amp a 2500 it should do over 2500 watts i for one would want a amp that do more then it say rather then only do it with peaks look at the way u rated old school amp like a zpa or m or ms i would rather have a amp rated at 50 watts that smokes amps rated at 1000 watts

The amp is a beast...

Ti2500.1 is the most powerful amplifier phoenix gold has built, except The One.

It will deliver SIGNIFICANTLY MORE continuous and dynamic power than the MS2250 and ZPA 0.5. While being massively more efficient.

look i love pg im not bashing anyone just saying when u guys made the m100 it did 550 watts rms thats more then the 100 watts i love pg and im happy u guys are trying like i said just imo

i guess im still in love with the old amps like the rest of the porum

You would need AT LEAST 3 M100's to equal one Ti2500.1 if we are talking about woofers...

Morgan what the chance of seeing some old school amps again

real good chance, just hop on over to ebay....

im sure alot of us would love to see a remake of a zpa or ms or m amp

southfloridaPGlover wrote:im sure alot of us would love to see a remake of a zpa or ms or m amp

well the argument for that is the dismal sales of the 10th anniversary ms's

its just too expensive to enter into that nitch market. its a vicious circle. if they only make a couple they will be too expensive as its a limited run. and there isnt enough market to make many of them to bring the price down

y not a 25th anniversary run of some old school amps ?

Not likely to see reintroduction of older amplifiers, been down that road.

But never say never, except for ZPAs....

That's funny... they couldn't move the 10th Anniversary MS amps at all. The things had to be liquidated on eBay because nobody would buy them. What makes you think yet another revival would be any different?

stipud wrote:That's funny... they couldn't move the 10th Anniversary MS amps at all. The things had to be liquidated on eBay because nobody would buy them. What makes you think yet another revival would be any different?

I think they just blew their load a little early, that's all I think they would sell quite well now if they did a reintroduction, but having a horrible track record doesn't help out the argument at all Which is really just too bad. But some new ZPA's...

MW3 wrote:Not likely to see reintroduction of older amplifiers, been down that road.

But never say never, except for ZPAs....

Morgan are you talking about 10th Anniversary edition? It's wasn't same amplifiers comparing to original MS1000, which was built for the GM track and MS1000 10th Anniversary Edition it's like comparing BMW with Yugo. Original MS2250 board was replaced with MAC500 (50% less power) Assemble quality was very bad compare to the original. The same thing about MS2250 and MS2125. 10th Anniversary Amplifiers specially last revision whe the original speaker terminals was replaced with ZX style was looks like Chinese knock-offs build in USA.

stipud wrote:That's funny... they couldn't move the 10th Anniversary MS amps at all. The things had to be liquidated on eBay because nobody would buy them. What makes you think yet another revival would be any different?

Have you seen last 10th Anniversary build when the original speaker terminals were replaced with ZX style? It looks very bad.

Sorry I don't follow what you are saying about ZX terminals on MS amplifiers.

By the way, all of the speaker and power terminals were made overseas on the originals. Same factory that did all the of the distribution blocks.