So are all 1/0 gauge wire created equal?

akwizeguy · Post by **akwizeguy** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:19 pm

So Im looking at upgrading my wiring to 1/0 gauge. I get many suggestions for the Kicker 1/0 gauge kit which seems insanely expensive to me at around $200. Whats wrong with the Phoenix Gold AKIT-ONE 1/0 gauge wire kit @ ~ $70. Am I missing something?

gridracer · Post by **gridracer** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:40 pm

1/0 AWG is made differently some brands have a thick insulator jacket so it looks like a 1/0 but in reality its almost a 4 AWG. I have the AKITT1 and it is just fine for wire strand count it's a good price on feebay because it's an old discontunued item. When looking for 1/0 you wanna compare the strand count of different brands.

dedlyjedly · Post by **dedlyjedly** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:07 pm

In short, the answer to your question is NO!

But I imagine you'd appreciate it if I elaborate on that!

The Kicker wire (as well as several other brands that are oem'd by the same manufacturer) is some of the biggest and baddest wire I've ever dealt with and I was a PG dealer for years. On the flipside, while the PG cable does NOT have as high of strand count as the Kicker, it does come with one of the nicest battery terminal/fuse holders you'll ever see. People have been paying big money for one of those terminals alone. If you're going to be requiring every last bit of potential current flow from a piece of 0 gauge then I don't recommend skimping, but even the PG is rated to 250 amps over a reasonable length and that's more than enough for most people. Even if your amps have the potential to max that out at full tilt, is the charging system itself going to stand up to those loads?

The secret weapon when comparing cable is to look for AWG on the packaging. It stands for American Wire Gauge and is a standard we can all rely on. Companies can get around the standard by just referring to a "gauge" but these companies still tend to have quality product at reasonable prices. The kits to really look out for and stay the hell away from are the companies that primarily specify what their wire consists of my using a wattage rating. As we've all learned recently a "standard" for rating wattage is unfortunately anything but! And that picture gets even uglier when those crazy wattage figures are extrapolated to somehow imply how much copper is actually in your wire!

JayGold · Post by **JayGold** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:09 pm

So which brands of 1/0 gauge are highly recommended?

dedlyjedly · Post by **dedlyjedly** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:13 pm

Oh snap! I'm a little slow, but I finally hit the 1k mark!

Post by **Bfowler** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:38 pm

to be fair, the akit1 is the 600 series, which is the low end PG.

the new kicker is the same as the new PG powerfleks

and to take it a step further. the new KNU wire is same too.

as far as currant capabilities, the akit 1 is still 80% of the nicer wire. (200 amps)

at some point you are paying extra for a name and flexibility.

now some people buy Mercedes' but an acura is still pretty damn nice.
same concept for cable

Stryker · Post by **Stryker** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:45 am

just go buy Knukonkeptz 0/1 all copper and not there cheaper CCA and be done with it super flexable and high strand count.
hell it's only 3.60 per foot which is super cheap......

rscecil007 · Post by **rscecil007** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:34 am

Here's all the 1/0g stuff I've dealt with since I got back into car audio a year ago.

Old PG Zero Point stuff - Great stuff, top of the line back in the day. Made before wires started going Yoga style and getting flexy.

The stuff from the AKIT1 mentioned earlier - To be honest, I can't tell a damn bit of difference in this wire and the old Zero Point stuff, in terms of wire size and outer jacket size. From what I could tell, actual wire size and jacket size are about the same. From a strand count and OFC or CCA standpoint, I'm not sure, so maybe the old ZP is the clear winner in that area.

Now discontinued but newer PG PowerFlex - simply put, this is the best wire I've ever gotten my hands on. The 1/0g stuff is 4074 strands I think? Not quite a high of strand count as the Kicker, Stinger, or Knukconceptz flex cable, but honestly, when the count's that high, anything more isn't a big deal. I can tie this PG wire in a knot easily. And it's thick. I mean really THICK. The jacket has a 5/8" outer diameter. Not sure what the old ZP jacket outer diameter was, but I know the old ZP stuff would fit in the old various compression fittings easily. The compression fittings take a lot of work to get on this new Power Flex wire. The Powerflex wire also wont' fit through the bushings/grommets on the old Titanium distribution blocks. Might have to get creative to make that work.

All that being said, I've probably got over 30 some odd feet of the 1/0 Power Flex stuff stashed, along with about 80 ft of the 4g.

Post by **ttocs** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:03 am

I have been happy with the price and the quality of knuconceptz wire delivered....

You would be amazed how thick they will make the insulator on the wire to make it appear thicker. Some are easily 2-3x as thick as others....

yeddy · Post by **yeddy** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:05 am

Welding wire I find is the best, it's cheaper then any audio company wire, and its always the right gauge!

tonym · Post by **tonym** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:08 pm

yeddy wrote:Welding wire I find is the best, it's cheaper then any audio company wire, and its always the right gauge!

and is more flexable also

shawn k · Post by **shawn k** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:15 pm

yeddy wrote:Welding wire I find is the best, it's cheaper then any audio company wire, and its always the right gauge!

Welding cable is GREAT stuff!!

Used some for a big-boy SPL system last summer and will definitely use it for my next personal install.

akwizeguy · Post by **akwizeguy** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:13 pm

so currently i just have a zx475ti and zx600ti, planning on upgrading to either a JL slash 1000/1 or a ti1000.2 in the future. Is the PG AKIT-1's wire strand count enough for all of this?

shawn k · Post by **shawn k** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:51 pm

akwizeguy wrote:so currently i just have a zx475ti and zx600ti, planning on upgrading to either a JL slash 1000/1 or a ti1000.2 in the future. Is the PG AKIT-1's wire strand count enough for all of this?

You will be fine

12voltjunky · Post by **12voltjunky** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:43 pm

JayGold wrote:So which brands of 1/0 gauge are highly recommended?

i am considering the stinger 0 ga kit. you can pick them up on ass-bay - sorry, feebay for $99 usd shipped

The dblink kits aren't bad either but for a few bucks more i would lean towards the stinger unless you like the distros, etc... that come with the dblink complete kits..

I also have a sentimental spot for monster cable, but again for a few bucks more i would lean towards - you guessed it, stinger

Post by **Bfowler** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:03 pm

if you know how you need, i'm still a firm believer the knu by the foot is the way to go.

how many amps are you really running? if its 200 or less, the CCA knu, or the pg kit is the winner for sure.

tonym · Post by **tonym** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:42 pm

yeah that KNU is some nice stuff for the price...same as the kicker power wire at half the price...

akwizeguy · Post by **akwizeguy** » Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:53 pm

quick question, since running 1/0 gauge wiring, do you guys run a wire to the negative battery terminal at all, or just the chassis? Is there any benefit to running a wire directly to the negative battery terminal?

jbob0124 · Post by **jbob0124** » Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:54 pm

Typically you would run the shortest length of cable to the chassis.

rscecil007 · Post by **rscecil007** » Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:04 pm

jbob0124 wrote:Typically you would run the shortest length of cable to the chassis.

Ditto, I think that's the best option to try first. If you just can't get a good ground and your voltage is suffering, then maybe try to run 1/0g from the battery.

And I have heard of a few guys that just couldn't get rid of a ground loop/noise without going all the way to the battery.

Post by **ttocs** » Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:53 pm

if you are going to run 1/0, then you will need to upgrade your stock ground wires as well or they will be a choke point for ALL our power. I know ford likes to use 8 awg and others are not much thicker. The big 3 you need to do are batt-chassis, chassis-block/alt, and the + alt-batt(fused 12" from battery). If you do not do these you can run all the ott gauge ya want but at these 8 awg choke points you will limit what you can send the amps.

As they said knu is probably the best and if I didn't get their super flex shit I would not have been able to complete my truck.... TAke an extension cord or some rope and make an approx run and then measure what you need.

AAMP217 · Post by **AAMP217** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:43 pm

If you value driving the vehicle you are installing the system in DO NOT USE copper clad aluminum wire in your vehicle. No matter how cheap it is. In the business of high current wire, you get what you pay for.

Post by **Bfowler** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:57 pm

AAMP217 wrote:If you value driving the vehicle you are installing the system in DO NOT USE copper clad aluminum wire in your vehicle. No matter how cheap it is. In the business of high current wire, you get what you pay for.

care to elaborate? i know it is rated for 20% less then copper of the same gauge rating, but is it unsafe beyond that?

akwizeguy · Post by **akwizeguy** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:52 pm

AAMP217 wrote:If you value driving the vehicle you are installing the system in DO NOT USE copper clad aluminum wire in your vehicle. No matter how cheap it is. In the business of high current wire, you get what you pay for.

is the PG AKIT-ONE copper clad aluminum wire?

shawn k · Post by **shawn k** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:28 pm

There's nothing wrong with CCA. It does have less current handling capability than pure copper, but as long as you compensate for it there's no reason not to use it.

As a general rule of thumb: For a particualr guage of copper neede, plan on one guage larger if you are using CCA. For example: If the current demands for a system calls for 4ga, then it would be wise to use 5ga "if" CCA is being used instead of copper.

Industrial buildings, skyscrapers, hospitals, shcools are just some of the buildings that use pure aluminum (less conductive than CCA) for power delivery. So if it can be used for these purposes then there's no reason whey we can't use CCA for our systems provided we are intelligent about it.

Knu Koncept has a good approach with all of this. They use CCA for their entry level cable because it's more cost effective than copper or tinned copper. However, they use more strands and less jacketing in order to make up for any loss in current handling potential while still maintaining the proper size cable for any given guage. I'm not trying sell anyone on the Knu stuff (although it's good product for a good price) but check out their site. They have a good explaination for their design philosophy.