Phoenix Gold Phorum

I have 100sqft of RAAMMAT to do a 4 door grand prix, Rick said it should be enough, but I dunno, its a lot of space with a huge trunk.

Would it be better to double layer the front doors (which is really 4 layers) single layer back doors and use the rest on the trunk or do 1 layer(2 on the front doors) over the whole car (Also I am not doing the roof)

i don't think a double layer on the fronts are necessary. i think using the 2nd layer for the floor would be a better use of it

Even if I cant do the ENTIRE floor, Also, is it important to do the rear deck? I never understood doing it, since its not bringing in noise from the outside.

yep, the foot well area lets through quite a bit of noise so just doing that would help if you cant do the whole floor.


the rear deck is known for causing vibrations from the sub. however i would skip the sound deadening for it, and if it rattles pick up some of that double sided foam tape and go to town on your back deck with it

Alright sounds good, Rick from raamaudio said it would be enough, but im just not seeing it

Bfowler wrote:i don't think a double layer on the fronts are necessary. i think using the 2nd layer for the floor would be a better use of it

QFT!

You guys are talking about 4 layers all together on the front doors right? Becuase I still want to do the outer and inner since my 6.5 will be mounted in the door.

yes. just put the 2 layers on the door. and then the other 2 you were going to add to it should instead go on the floor

Ah, ok. and the trunk? 1 layer or 2?

whatever is left after doing the 2layers on the front doors. the 2 layers (the size that was going to go on the door) on the floor. and a single layer on rear doors.

better yet, cough up another 60-80 bones for 100 sq feet of some cheep stuff like fatmat, and use it on the floors. Raammat is vastly superior, but I think that assuming you're using something of a comparable thickness & weight that using it on a horizontal surface should be fine. I'm a Raammat-only guy when it comes to any door, wall, roof, etc, but I think that for the floor you could probably save a few bucks and get some cheaper stuff, since you don't have to worry about it falling off.

444 FED wrote:

Bfowler wrote:i don't think a double layer on the fronts are necessary. i think using the 2nd layer for the floor would be a better use of it

QFT!

I have to disagree. Yes, there is a lot of road noise and such that proper sound treatment on the floorboards can eliminate, but sound deadener alone isn't likely the best approach. All sound deadener is effectively used for is a mass-loading layer for your sound treatments. By adding mass to a panel it drives the resonant frequency down. Thus, the lighter the sheetmetal (door structures and outer skin) the more effective sound deadening will be. Every vehicle is different, but most have substantially heavier materials in the floorboard than the rest of the vehicle. The best way to determine this is to test by knocking on the suspected trouble area. If it's dead and there is no resonance then there will be no benefit to adding additional mass layers.

Every time I install raammat I use it in conjunction with the Ensolite foam that Rick sells. In fact, a layer of ensolite goes over the top of almost all raammat that is installed. The ensolite is great for absorbing noise (sound barrier) and for decoupling rigid materials that would other wise rattle against one another.

Used together, these sound treatments will yield a synergistic effect and you'll be amazed at the difference it makes. But if I had to choose one or the other due to budget, I'd choose the closed-cell foam!

For the floor nothing beats lead septum foam............both CAE and DM have a version of it but I prefer the cascade version. Too bad you didn't make it here in time for the CAE buy in I arranged........

dedlyjedly wrote:

444 FED wrote:

Bfowler wrote:i don't think a double layer on the fronts are necessary. i think using the 2nd layer for the floor would be a better use of it

QFT!

I have to disagree. Yes, there is a lot of road noise and such that proper sound treatment on the floorboards can eliminate, but sound deadener alone isn't likely the best approach. All sound deadener is effectively used for is a mass-loading layer for your sound treatments. By adding mass to a panel it drives the resonant frequency down. Thus, the lighter the sheetmetal (door structures and outer skin) the more effective sound deadening will be. Every vehicle is different, but most have substantially heavier materials in the floorboard than the rest of the vehicle. The best way to determine this is to test by knocking on the suspected trouble area. If it's dead and there is no resonance then there will be no benefit to adding additional mass layers.

Every time I install raammat I use it in conjunction with the Ensolite foam that Rick sells. In fact, a layer of ensolite goes over the top of almost all raammat that is installed. The ensolite is great for absorbing noise (sound barrier) and for decoupling rigid materials that would other wise rattle against one another.

Used together, these sound treatments will yield a synergistic effect and you'll be amazed at the difference it makes. But if I had to choose one or the other due to budget, I'd choose the closed-cell foam!

very true, but i was only speakering to making the best use of what product he already had

dedlyjedly wrote:

444 FED wrote:

Bfowler wrote:i don't think a double layer on the fronts are necessary. i think using the 2nd layer for the floor would be a better use of it

QFT!

I have to disagree. Yes, there is a lot of road noise and such that proper sound treatment on the floorboards can eliminate, but sound deadener alone isn't likely the best approach. All sound deadener is effectively used for is a mass-loading layer for your sound treatments. By adding mass to a panel it drives the resonant frequency down. Thus, the lighter the sheetmetal (door structures and outer skin) the more effective sound deadening will be. Every vehicle is different, but most have substantially heavier materials in the floorboard than the rest of the vehicle. The best way to determine this is to test by knocking on the suspected trouble area. If it's dead and there is no resonance then there will be no benefit to adding additional mass layers.

Every time I install raammat I use it in conjunction with the Ensolite foam that Rick sells. In fact, a layer of ensolite goes over the top of almost all raammat that is installed. The ensolite is great for absorbing noise (sound barrier) and for decoupling rigid materials that would other wise rattle against one another.

Used together, these sound treatments will yield a synergistic effect and you'll be amazed at the difference it makes. But if I had to choose one or the other due to budget, I'd choose the closed-cell foam!

Say what?

In every vehicle that I have cut apart, the floor was made from the same thickness of material that the rest of the car was, especially when it comes to later model cars.

Anytime you add mass or weight to a panel, the resonant frequency goes down, and makes it more difficult ofr it to get "excited" and start rinng from teh sound system OR from air fluctuations and other sources of noise outside of the car. The idea is to move the resonant frequency down so far that it's below audible range.

VW337 wrote:For the floor nothing beats lead septum foam............both CAE and DM have a version of it but I prefer the cascade version. Too bad you didn't make it here in time for the CAE buy in I arranged........

hmmm

I was goign to to say deaden my floor did basically jack shit....

if you are doing just the floor then you are right.

You need to go up the firewall a bit (as far as possible) and make certain you cover the area where it's rounded for your tire-well. This alone can kill 3-6db of road noise.