well I will no longer be soldering my power connections

Post by **ttocs** » Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:08 am

the last time I was out in my mustang as I came home I noticed that my voltage was dropping slowly but surely. By the time I pulled in the garage i could not get it above 11.8v. I didn't have the time to check it so I left it sit till today. Tod ay I started it up and watched the power slip down much faster as it lost half a volt in less then 2 mins of running. I popped the hood to check the power connections as I just added the new shiney pg batt terminals but they were all solid. When I checked the alt I immediatly noticed that the 4 awg wire that goes from there to the battery(fused of course) had corroded so bat that it snapped off right at the terminal. The wire was completely black and the ring was still bolted on to the alt, shiney and new. Never seen anything like it but then I have never serviced a sytem for as long as I have this one. I used the knu flex cable and soldered and crimped the ring on. It looks like the corrosion and the vibrations of the motor(it is a mustang) caused it to slowly break and corrode but I am not sure if this wire is over 3 yrs old yet........

Might be time to upgrade the power wire sooner then I hoped but it is on its way shortly. I just wonder if this would have happened with the solid copper wire.

I will get pics when I find my camera, hopefully by the end of the day but anyone else ever seen something like this before?

str3atwarrior · Post by **str3atwarrior** » Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:10 am

They sell heatshrink tubes with some kind of paste in it, the connection then become air and water proof. They don't cost much more than normal ones, and it saves you from getting this kind of problem!

Post by **ttocs** » Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:00 am

I think it was more the vibrations then the corosion.

I happened to have bought a pack of that double walled adhesive backed shrink last weekend. Wasn't cheap but I am thankfull now.

Post by **Rold Gold** » Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:18 am

Sounds like a combo of the 2 to me.....
But adding the goop is a good idea aswell......

oldschoolfan · Post by **oldschoolfan** » Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:54 am

Don't stop soldering because of this. The solder helps to seal out the nasties that cause oxidation of the wire and connections. But do use the sealed heat shrink tubing as well.

Post by **ttocs** » Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:06 pm

it was protected with shrink and don't forget it also spend the last 2.5 yrs in the desert and only 1/2 a year in the moist midwest... Hell I had exposed metal on my truck that never rusted out here so there is no way this would have corroded worse then that.

gbody805 · Post by **gbody805** » Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:19 pm

Did you maybe over heat the wire?
I always thought that if you over heat the copper it starts the corosion faster because the copper has burnt.

gbody805 · Post by **gbody805** » Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:21 pm

I say this cause the part where you say the wire is black.

Most of the wires I've seen fail from corrision are mostly white powder and green wire.

dBincognito · Post by **dBincognito** » Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:10 pm

This is why I only use compression fit items......won't catch a ring terminal in my car without it.

Post by **ttocs** » Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:13 pm

not sure how you would use a compression fitting ring terminal to hook up to the alt. There is no space for the bulky fitting neither behind the alt nor on the terminal, hell th 4 awg barely fit there. Also not sure how the compression fitting would have done for corrosion but I also wonder if it were solid copper what would have happened.

gbody805 · Post by **gbody805** » Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:21 pm

You might have the same problem with cracks and breaks.

The solid wire would be way stiffer then the regular stranded cable.
Once bent into a shape it would stay that way untill straightened out.
Just the slight movement of the motor on the mounts would be enough over time to flex and break the solid copper.

That's why most hard lines from the motor to the body or frame have some kind of soft connection.

dBincognito · Post by **dBincognito** » Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:45 pm

ttocs wrote:not sure how you would use a compression fitting ring terminal to hook up to the alt. There is no space for the bulky fitting neither behind the alt nor on the terminal, hell th 4 awg barely fit there. Also not sure how the compression fitting would have done for corrosion but I also wonder if it were solid copper what would have happened.

can you take a pic, I have no problem going as large as 1/0 gauge to the alternator.

holmis · Post by **holmis** » Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:52 pm

If you secure the cable after the ring terminal + have slack in the cable after that, it should not be a problem. Then you get rid of the stress at the terminal..
I allways do this & only use awg2 on my alternator...

//Asle

.

gbody805 · Post by **gbody805** » Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:58 pm

Have you tried ring lugs and solder pellets..

No crimp needed.
You just secure the terminal up right, drop the solder pellet inside the open cable end.
Heat the endand once the pellett starts to melt and bubble you press the cut and stipped wire into the end and let it cool.
Shrink wrap it and your done.

With this method you don't heat the wire just the end.

Stryker · Post by **Stryker** » Sat Aug 07, 2010 4:41 pm

same thing happened to me and mine was soldered on too.
literally fell off when i wiggled it. used a crimp type ring and no problems since. never did find out why but it's all good now.

shawn k · Post by **shawn k** » Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:34 am

I've seen this several times before. Sounds to me like the cable and ring terminal were arcing. Usually if you see black somewhere on a cable (especially at a termination point) that's what caused it.

Which series of Knu cable did you use? If it's the CCA cable, I wouldn't rely on solder. Solder doen't mate well with aluminum even when using flux. You also said you crimped as well. What crimping "style" did you use? For larger cable I nearly always crimp. First, I rarely use the crimp style ring terminals you typically find from the car audio brands. I use pure copper lugs that you'ld find at the hardware store. For crimping, I put the cable and terminal on solid ground or maybe a concrete cinder block and hammer the snot out of it! I have one of those beefy $40 hammer style crimping tools that I've use maybe 3 times in all. I still prefer just to hammer the terminal directly on the ground. With a little practice, you can flatten the ring terminal and it won't bulge out beyond the width of the ring. Put some heat shrink over it and it still looks good. I promise this is stronger than a lot of people think

Post by **ttocs** » Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:56 am

I was suprised last night to notice that I ran this in monster cable, it is copper not clad so that is not it........ I took a couple of pics and will get them up as soon as I can remember where I put my camera last night

tonym · Post by **tonym** » Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:29 am

str3atwarrior wrote:They sell heatshrink tubes with some kind of paste in it, the connection then become air and water proof. They don't cost much more than normal ones, and it saves you from getting this kind of problem!

its glue...but not as tight as a seal as one would think...

gbody805 · Post by **gbody805** » Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:34 am

I have access to shrink tube that has the glue inside.
We use it on coaxial camera cable that is submerged in water for hours at a time.
Never had a problem with the seal.

str3atwarrior · Post by **str3atwarrior** » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:19 am

tonym wrote:
str3atwarrior wrote:They sell heatshrink tubes with some kind of paste in it, the connection then become air and water proof. They don't cost much more than normal ones, and it saves you from getting this kind of problem!
its glue...but not as tight as a seal as one would think...

We're not talking about the same thing then. The one i used had some thermal paste that make a reaction when heated. We used it some times when doing underground electric entry, when you do joint in junction boxes. Basicly you must make it so it cover the splicer and maybe 2-3inch more each side, then you heat it, and it makes an air and water tight seal. It is CSA (UL in the states if i recall) approved to be 100% water/air tight, for use in wet and corrosive environment. I'll try to get part # from my ex boss, and i'll let you know!

Post by **ttocs** » Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:28 am

the package I bought was $14 so I hope they are waterproof.

oldschoolfan · Post by **oldschoolfan** » Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:39 am

gbody805 wrote:Have you tried ring lugs and solder pellets..

No crimp needed.
You just secure the terminal up right, drop the solder pellet inside the open cable end.
Heat the endand once the pellett starts to melt and bubble you press the cut and stipped wire into the end and let it cool.
Shrink wrap it and your done.

With this method you don't heat the wire just the end.

Last time I bought ring connectors and welding cable at the welding shop the guy there told me about this method. It works perfect, without heating the cable. No damage to the insulation at all. It takes a bit of practice to get the right amount of solder in the terminal but after you get that down you will feel like a pro. I have also made jumper cables this way.

gbody805 · Post by **gbody805** » Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:50 am

All of my power cable are built with them now.
At my home terminal they have rolls of cable, lugs and solder pellets.
I love those things.
The pellets are small solder cylinders with a center core of rosin
You just match the cable with the lug with the pellet and your golden.

I'll try to get photos if anyone wants?

dBincognito · Post by **dBincognito** » Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:26 am

Stryker wrote:same thing happened to me and mine was soldered on too.
literally fell off when i wiggled it. used a crimp type ring and no problems since. never did find out why but it's all good now.

Does nobody use compression fittings ?

5 men giving it their all couldn't pull one of my wires loose.

Post by **ttocs** » Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:49 am

unfortunatly I am fairly sur that the compression terminal is too bulky on the back of my alt. I had barely enough space to get my 1/4" drive ratchet and a small bit in to remove the bolt. I had to remove the oil breather to do it but I am afraid that once it is back on it would short out.