v-belt current draw issues

more0.5zthanyou · Post by **more0.5zthanyou** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:06 am

I currently own a 1986 buick regal limited. I have a 240 amp ohio and removed my air and smog pump and installed a 2nd 240 amp high out put alt. Both are ran back into 3 2400 kinetic batteries that are ran parallel. In the middle of the three batteries my 1/0 wire is directly into a pg 15 farad powercore that acts as a distribution for my grounds and power to my amps. Everything is 1/0 guage from front to back. Power is run on drivers side of batteries and ground on passengerside.up front is a kinetic battery as well. I was using 4 zpa 0.5 with correct line drivers. And 2 0.3 zpa for my 24 alpine mids and highs. The 4 zpa 0.5 are running 4 15" subs in a wall. I'm using a alpine iva d300 and pxa h701 30 band that connects to my head unit brain and works through the monitor. Brtain to monitor is on driverside and eq brain is on oass side. Any time I try to play stereo during day or night the belts squeel way too much. Only when I start to turn it up. Since the zpa 0.5 are versitile I eliminated 2 to take a considerable load off. And changed belts and was able to turn it up and enjoy it only till the belt "broke in" and its really bad again. My engine is an olds 307 I don't wanna change to a serpentine set up because no company makes a dual alternator serpentine set up for olds. Should I bore out the motor and make it a little more high performance? I have done everything possible and can't squeeze another battery in this its already full of line drivers, Alpine spx f17t crossovers the bigger ones. Amps, and batterys but everything is nice neat and seperated. Its up front in engine when I start to draw high current. Any help would be great!

oldschoolfan · Post by **oldschoolfan** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:55 am

The 307 is not your problem. Not enough friction from belt to pulley is.

Is it one alternator belt or both that squeak? Some GM set ups have dual belt pulleys, that might help. If you are really drawing that much current to make those belts slip you need more surface area of belt to pulley to compensate. If you cannot get double wide pulleys to fix it then serpentine would be the way to go. Get someones serpentine change over kit and then get some custom brackets made to mount the second alternator. The trick would be getting that second one mounted in a way to get good friction on the belt by way of the most contact on the pulley as possible. You may also need to have custom brackets made to mount another idler pulley or two to accomplish that.

The Golden One · Post by **The Golden One** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:22 am

yea a 307 is a pretty stout motor my mom had one in a four door buick park avenue and it pulled that sled pretty good. if you ran long tube headers and a high output ignition system you would have alot more lowend torque to pull those alts. im not sure if you can get a wider belt setup but if you could it would help big time the belts would last longer and you'll have more contact area for more grip.

Post by **ttocs** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:24 am

and with a new exhaust you might not hear the belt slipping either? Between that and turn up the stereo more, you shouldn't hear much

more0.5zthanyou · Post by **more0.5zthanyou** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:46 pm

It has new dual exhaust and my goal is to eliminate the noise. It actually is the power steering belt but it shares a pully with the alternator. The second alternator is shimmer out to the smog pump pully it's totally in line but is just a tad slower since it's not the main belts.adding the second alternator didn't help much but it did. Were talkin serious current draw I guess. Would switching to 2 viper d2500.1 be better since there more efficent? Idont want to it really sounds clean on the sub end even at high volumes.

oldschoolfan · Post by **oldschoolfan** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:32 pm

I know for a fact that gm has used double grooved v belt power steering pulleys in the past. If you could find a set of those, one for the PS and one for the crank, that could potentially fix the PS pulley from squealing.

With your second alternator, if you want it to spin faster, get it a smaller diameter pulley. You have a lot of options to try and fine tune your current v belt set up.

Post by **ttocs** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:35 pm

are you sure it is not the pully bearing that is squeeking when it heats up?

ZTwenty8SSR · Post by **ZTwenty8SSR** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:04 pm

ttocs wrote:are you sure it is not the pully bearing that is squeeking when it heats up?

I don't think that would be his problem I don't think that a 307 ever had a idler or tension pulley to have bearing problems.

more0.5zthanyou · Post by **more0.5zthanyou** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:48 pm

Thanks for the help! It does have dual pulleys and there does seem to be able to fit a belt directly up from another pulley. But since it would run vertical it would have to be a super short belt. With no tensioner unless I built one? And it would share the same pully as the water pump. It pretty much has dual pulleys..... On top and bottom. I'm using a alternator belt a waterpump belt and power steering pump belt. The other alternator is on a smog pump pulley. The power steering belt begins to slip very bad under high volumes. And you can actually see it rise of the pulley so its definately tryin to put tension on it when I steer because it robs me of power. Should I try to max out my alternators and customize them for more power. I know this usually means shorter alt life. It has gates belts. And the pulleys are the smallest. Who makes the best belts? I know if I tweek this a little more I can beat this but even though this thing is loud this belt hits some nasty sounds. Is my current draw ratio to alternator to battery to amp ratio ok? Kinetik told me these battery amperes were perfect for the amps draw but do I need at least one 300 amp alt? You would think that a 240 h.o. And pretty much half of another since it runs the car also,would be enough to keep my batterys charged. I checked all three and keep them on a charger in winter.

more0.5zthanyou · Post by **more0.5zthanyou** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:04 pm

I like the long header and ignition idea. I haven't really done any upgrades but I hear that you can do a lot with headers, crank, cam etc... It just broke 60,000 miles and has factory digital dash. Which is why I bought it. I put fabtech spindles on it that keeps everything stock and gave me three inches in heighth and 2 1/2 in. Spring cups with monroe air shocks to get me the 3 inches in rear with buick stationwagon cargo springs with 1100lb. Capacity. Its at about 1000 ponds in weight with stereo. 14.5 ft. Box ported in middle from top to bottom. I still have my factory dome light and total seat movement. This thing is truly awesome and everything is trimmed and factory material mached. If needed I could take everything out and it was made to be able to be put back to normal for all the haters that say its ruined...... I wanna see someones regal stereo beat mine!

more0.5zthanyou · Post by **more0.5zthanyou** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:29 pm

Actually oldschoolfan was right about all of his post but its so hard! Around here nobody can or prob woulld. And I'm from the quad citys. I forgot but some one builds a olds serpentine set up but its like chevys where is mostly full serpentine but it uses belts on one thing. Chevy don't even make it for dual high out put cs-144 cases. I'm not about chevy but olds are more expensive for parts that's why everyone around my neck is chevy. I don't think any one arond here even knows how to build a custom bracket with tensioners with out raping me. I got luck with my bracket. Thank god for 84 regals with right hand alt bracket. Even though it was a v6 84 mine is a v8 86. I really wish I did have a serpentine kit it would fix my problems. But these cars actually to me are rare and one of a kind I think down the road the will be highly sought after.....

oldschoolfan · Post by **oldschoolfan** » Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:56 am

I think we would all like to see pictures of your install. Also a picture of the front of your engine may be helpful. Since you mentioned seeing the belt rise off of the power steering pulley, it sounds like the pump is flexing it's mounts to the engine. It is standard, now, in the auto industry for accessories like this to have at least three points of contact. This means that it should have at least three different bolts holding it down in three different places. I believe yours has two on the front of the engine and the third bolts onto the very front bolt, or stud, on the exhaust manifold. Double check and make sure all are there. Again some pictures of all of this could be helpful.

more0.5zthanyou · Post by **more0.5zthanyou** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:20 pm

i just posted my car on the pic forum hope you all like!

brenzbmr@sb · Post by **brenzbmr@sb** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:10 pm

do me a favor take a pic of the alternators and the belts and let me see what i can come up with.

second is this, like some one said u may not have enough surface contact with pulley and belt.

i had the same problem with my 87 nissan sentra witha pg 225 amp alternator i moddded to get in. i used the serpentine belt and on full load they would slip.

i then took a pulley off of an extra power steering pump for same car and installed that on the alternator and then remodded the mount to make the alternator line up with v belt grooves. that was a winner...

all good after that.

anyway i wanna see and also the damn set up u have is insane..lol

more0.5zthanyou · Post by **more0.5zthanyou** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:33 pm

I need a internet address so I can forward pics I took them but don't know how to transfer them over to this phorum! Maybe Someone can post them for me![/img]

Post by **ttocs** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:07 pm

do a right click on your picture and then copy the HTTP address that shows up.

Now go and push the Img buton above, then paste the address of the pic, then push the Img button above again.

more0.5zthanyou · Post by **more0.5zthanyou** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:35 pm

Here some pics its pretty simple. I removed bracket and smog pump I lined up the second alt with the smog pump pulley.

oldschoolfan · Post by **oldschoolfan** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:08 pm

Ok, looking at the water pump pulley, it has three grooves. The one on the rear is not used, the middle runs the power steering and drops down to the crank, the front one runs the alternator and does not go down to the crank. The extra alternator is run directly off the crank with no other pulleys.

Please correct me where I have missed something so we can get this sorted out. How many total grooves on the crank and how are each of them used?

gbody805 · Post by **gbody805** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:19 pm

First problem I see are the belts are sitting to low in the pulleys.
Are you able to see different style belts from more then one manufacturer?
By this I mean smooth belts Vs. cog belts.(toothed).
Different belts have different thickness.
The belt should actually ride mid point in the pulley.

Second problem. And this might just be the angle of the photo.
The Alt. on the passenger side seems to be slightly forward at the top then the driver side Alt.

When you hear the wine/screech, is it coming from both Alt.s or just one?

Most of the engine accessories are tilted slightly back at the top from the offset of the motor on the mounts.

The passenger side Alt looks off alittle.

more0.5zthanyou · Post by **more0.5zthanyou** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:44 pm

there is a open pulley right below the open pulley you were talkin about on top. But its directly below it. I'm not able to see how many grooves are on the crank pulley but I'm assuming two? The smog pump pulley is what the second alternator runs on but it seems that when the total balance of all the belts on the car like the air compressor pump and smog it gave it more balance of power distributed evenly through out the pulleys. Since I elimenated 2 belts essentially I put all the torque mostly on the power steering pump correct? The belts that are on it are the factory belts.

gbody805 · Post by **gbody805** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:16 pm

more0.5zthanyou wrote:The belts that are on it are the factory belts.

The factory belt for a smog pump is smaller/ thinner in size then a Alt. belt.
This would make it ride lower in the v-pulley. It does not have enough suface area for the HO. Alt.

ZTwenty8SSR · Post by **ZTwenty8SSR** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:25 pm

I am not 100% sure but try looking for a 307 from a 86 - 90 caprice wagon I knew a guy that had 1990 and it had a 307 Oldsmobile that I think had serpentine belts.

more0.5zthanyou · Post by **more0.5zthanyou** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:21 pm

Well I was wrong actually. The h.o. Pass side alternator has a alternator belt that replaced the factory alt belt. So I replaced all belts. With gates but when I mounted second alt and shimmed it out the factory replaced belt fit perfect but there is no tensioner! Which prob should be. We just tightened it with a wedge bar and some good old fashioned muscle... So they both have factory replaced alt belt. But its what was recommended to me when I bought these as they needed replaced, how can I get a tensioner for pass side? This has gone away when I put a fresh belt on and tightened it. I actually think its the alt belt on driverside making all that squeeling but I can't tell because it happens at high volumes like when I come to a stop light and take off it is horrible. Or anything that puts stress on the car when its playing... Like turning on my headlights.

more0.5zthanyou · Post by **more0.5zthanyou** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:28 pm

I have 3 2400 kinetik and 2 alts. Both over 200 amps but one shares with the car. Do I have enough current amps to the batteries? So they stay charged??? With about 320 amps of draw from the stereo???

more0.5zthanyou · Post by **more0.5zthanyou** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:33 pm

Does the pass alt need to be at a slight tilt? Its lined up perfect with the smog pump pulley...