need advise on best way to setup

skitz · Post by **skitz** » Sat May 12, 2007 5:16 am

hey ppl

i have at current a xenon 10" sub dual 4ohm running of a kenwood amp (600wrms)

but i have two of these subs and i am about to get around to putting the second one in. i have bought a PG octane-r 15.0:1 which sould have the juice to power the 2. but for the moment i want to just ues the 15.0:1 with the one xenon.

now i noticed the mono block has 2 sets of speaker in's... i read the manual and it said that they are both internally linked. my question is what is the best way to wire it all up?

any help or advise will be much apresiated.

and also for a lil down the track for when the second fibreglass box is made how would you go about wireing it up then?

cheers guys

P.S.

current setup looks like this atm PG amp for the front and rear splits and kenwood amp for sub.

and yes i know this is beofore i wired up the blue led on the sub hahhaha

Post by **stipud** » Sat May 12, 2007 6:58 am

Hmmm.... Unfortunately with two D4 woofers, you can only hook them up to a single 1 ohm or 4 ohm load. Since the 15.0:1 is optimized for 2 ohms, there is no way to ideally hook up two woofers. If you ran it at 4 ohms bridged, the amp would only put out half the power (500w), and if you ran it at 1 ohm, the amp would run extra hot.

Hooking it up to one sub will feed it 1000 watts at 2 ohms quite nicely. In my experience the Xenon woofers can take the additional power, as long as you are very careful setting the gains!

tsonka · Post by **tsonka** » Sat May 12, 2007 7:03 am

I like your enclosure.

When you gt it completed put pic up in the install section

skitz · Post by **skitz** » Sat May 12, 2007 7:17 am

stipud wrote:Hmmm.... Unfortunately with two D4 woofers, you can only hook them up to a single 1 ohm or 4 ohm load. Since the 15.0:1 is optimized for 2 ohms, there is no way to ideally hook up two woofers. If you ran it at 4 ohms bridged, the amp would only put out half the power (500w), and if you ran it at 1 ohm, the amp would run extra hot.

Hooking it up to one sub will feed it 1000 watts at 2 ohms quite nicely. In my experience the Xenon woofers can take the additional power, as long as you are very careful setting the gains!

hmm wait u lost me there... so why can i have one sub wired up at 2ohm but 2 has to be 1 or 4?

also would it run hot with the gains turned down ?

cheers

and tsonka will do man but i am a lazy person so it wont be getting fibre glassed for some time to come yet ..

this sux's as when i bought them a yr ago i had the option of getting the dual 2ohms or the 4ohms and not knowing the diff went the 4 ohms man am i stupid

Post by **stipud** » Sat May 12, 2007 8:26 am

Alright, here's the gist of it.

Voicecoils can be hooked in either series or parallel.

Check out this wiring tutorial: http://www.phoenixgold.com/2004/wiringtutorial.html

When you wire them in series, you basically multiply the impedance by the number of coils hooked up. So lets say you've got a dual 4 ohm subwoofer, and hook it up in series. We've got 4 ohms * 2, so an 8 ohm total load. Now if you've got two dual 4 ohm subwoofers, you have 4 ohms * 4, so 16 ohm total.

When you wire them in series, you divide by the number of coils. So a dual 4 ohm woofer wired in parallel makes a 4 ohm / 2 = 2 ohm load. Two dual 4 ohm woofers wired in parallel would give you 4 ohm / 4 = 1 ohm.

You can also mix series and parallel wiring. So let's say you have two dual 4 ohm woofers, and wire them individually in series, for two 8 ohm loads. Then you wire those two 8 ohm loads in parallel to make a 4 ohm load.

So... your wiring options with two woofers are 1 ohm, 4 ohm, or 16 ohm. Your options with one woofer are 2 ohm or 8 ohm.

skitz · Post by **skitz** » Sat May 12, 2007 2:47 pm

hmmm so what are the risks of the 1ohm option?

like the amp wont keep droping in and out will it from overheating?

ow and in my pm you mentioned that i should be able to get a smooth 1000w at 1ohm with out issue if i play with the gain. do u mean have it turned down heaps?

cheers and sorry for being such a novice

Post by **stipud** » Sat May 12, 2007 3:25 pm

Most robust amps can handle one step of impedance below their ideal. It will run hotter, not produce much extra power, but it should still work. Depending on how it is ventilated, it should not turn off, but I unfortunately haven't owned an Octane amp, so I can't tell you from experience.

skitz · Post by **skitz** » Sat May 12, 2007 3:41 pm

hmmm thx well in the manual it stats that it shuts down when the internal heat sink hits 90degree.

the other octane amp i got runs REALLY cold...but its less watts and is at a 4ohm load atm so...

as i dont want to be pulling the maxx out of my system to have a hardcore set of bass notes come on and have my amp shut down mid sound if ya know what i mean

has anyone on hear EVER wired up on of these or simular octane mono block at 1ohm? how did it go?

they got no sun light in the boot and it always apears to be cool in there and there not inclosed by anythink see pics above so should i be right?

also what gauge wireing should i use for the subs?

also atm i am using 4gauge from the batery to the amps with a 140amp breaker, will this be good enough to run what i want?

cheers

Post by **AVICJR** » Sat May 12, 2007 4:21 pm

12 gauge for the sub wiring is good. If I were you I would upgrade to 0 gauge power run from the battery to trunk. With that much power 0 gauge is probably what the manual asks for anyway.

Post by **VW337** » Sat May 12, 2007 8:33 pm

The R15.0:1 can run 1 ohm but it is not readily advised. Make certain you run 1/0 to the trunk/boot as mentioned above.

Post by **VW337** » Sat May 12, 2007 10:28 pm

So everybody knows my thinking here and so I won't get crucified for my comment. Also since skitz had PM'd for clarification---

Like any amp it can run virtually any load given the right conditions. The main issue is heat when it comes to running subs. If you run it hard/loud it is going to get hot and shut down. If you run a small power cable to it, it will get hotter due to voltage sag (lower voltage = higher current draw = heat).

Most people running amps at 1 ohm don't stop to think about what they are doing. If you keep in mind you may have heat issues and use good judgment as to how you are affecting your amp then you will be fine.

skitz · Post by **skitz** » Sat May 12, 2007 10:38 pm

cheers for that so one last thing man

just to get this straight

so if i go 0gauge from batery to a spliter spliting into 2X 4gauge 1 for each amp and if its in the above pictured location (where the curent kenwood amp is) will i have amp shutdowns when running the 2 xenons hard for long (30min) periods of time?

cheers

Post by **bdubs767** » Sat May 12, 2007 10:40 pm

skitz wrote:cheers for that so one last thing man

just to get this straight

so if i go 0gauge from batery to a spliter spliting into 2X 4gauge 1 for each amp and if its in the above pictured location (where the curent kenwook amp is) will i have amp shutdowns when running the 2 xenons hard for long (30min) periods of time?

cheers

huh? No it wont shut down, unless your amp is overheating.

skitz · Post by **skitz** » Sat May 12, 2007 10:50 pm

thats what i mean will it get that hot? at 1ohm running 2 xenons at full power for long periods of time ? in that above location?

cheers

Post by **AVICJR** » Sat May 12, 2007 10:57 pm

The answer is YES it will get hot if pounding it for long periods of time. Your best advice is to be cautious. Be conservative with the gain (maybe add a line driver), if you can somehow put a fan back there, and don't crank it up for long periods of time. It will save the life of your amps.

skitz · Post by **skitz** » Sat May 12, 2007 11:19 pm

whats a line driver?

Post by **VW337** » Sat May 12, 2007 11:21 pm

I can not guarantee that it will or will not shut down. There are too many variables such as:

Listening level
Ambient temperature
Charging system voltage
Music being played
Inconsistency's in the manufactured product being used

I suggest to hook it up run it for a bit in a typical listening manner, then feel the amp, and add additional cooling if needed.

skitz · Post by **skitz** » Sat May 12, 2007 11:26 pm

when u say add cooling u mean like have a case made up with fans in it right or...?

thx heaps for this guys i have learnt heaps and i think i have a lot better idea of what i am doing

Post by **VW337** » Sun May 13, 2007 11:26 am

cooling would typically equate to the use of fans in some manner, however you could fashion a liquid cooling system too but the expense may not be worth it.

skitz · Post by **skitz** » Thu May 17, 2007 1:33 pm

well guys i just thought i would randomly let you all know that i put the 15.0:1 is yesterday.... and at the same time cleaned up the wireing lol:P

it apears that when it was wired up it was done as a 8ohm and it was prob only getting less than half the rms it would like

it was also useing 16ga wireing

but all that is fixed up now

it is at a 2ohm load and it is running 10ga for the sub

and needless to say this new amp rocks its a lil louder but the quality is smick i love it i spent a good 1hr having a play with the settings etc and i have it just the way i like it

so now next step get another fibreglass box made up and put the second one in

when its all done i will put up pics in the install section

cheers for all ur advise guys this thread along with a few others have helped me heaps

P.S as a negitive though now i suffer from light blinkage

looks like i may need a bigger batery or a cap around the time the second sub goes in

as when it goes in i will up the 4ga to 0ga

eyesofra · Post by **eyesofra** » Thu May 17, 2007 11:01 pm

ebay for caps... PG caps are goin for like 40+ bucks ....

skitz · Post by **skitz** » Thu May 17, 2007 11:57 pm

eyesofra wrote:ebay for caps... PG caps are goin for like 40+ bucks ....

is there different quality levels? different sizes etc?

and how to install as i am likeing the DIY atm:P is it just put it on the main wire going from the batery to the spliter (atm is a 4ga into 2 4ga)

cheers

eyesofra · Post by **eyesofra** » Fri May 18, 2007 2:52 am

there are different quality level ...in terms of esr value,v rating and all,but i think as long as u stick to some reputable names u should be fine...
they do have a rule of thump for proper capacitance , and its 1 farad for every 1000w..

just wire the caps in parallel to the leads from ur battery and ground...
i've got mine in between the battery and the distribution fuse mounted in trunk........
the fuse then feeds my two amps....

check-out this write-up by errin...
http://phoenixphorum.com/proper-power-vt181.html