A newbie (2phoenixphorums) w/ a bad clone....

[Snailpowered]

So...
I bought a clone last night after looking and wanting one for a LONG time, something like 10+ years. So, anyways, the clone ive got looks to have cracked motor/magnet assembly. I will post pictures at the end. My biggest question is, where can i get another magnet from? As im sure it would be a difficult to find a new magnet as it looks like a specialty made peice. If one of you could give me the offical bad news and condemn the magnet i would appreciate it.
Man i hope there is a place or person that has these magnets for sale...



I also included a pair of pics of the stator, it has light markings where i believe the magnets were rubbing it. Hopefully thats at least still in a usable condition.

[Snailpowered]

Stator

[joerg]

My biggest question is, where can i get another magnet from?

I also included a pair of pics of the stator, it has light markings where i believe the magnets were rubbing it. Hopefully thats at least still in a usable condition.

You might get the parts to repair the magnet from members here. Other than that i don´t think there is a source for the very same type. The stator will still do it´s job. No problem there at all.

[ttocs]

replace the bearings while you are in there. I think its as easy as taking them off an taking them down to home depot to compair to router bearings.

[Snailpowered]

Well i believe that i have found the reason for the magnet looking the way that it does. Let me know if any of you have heard of this happening/ or is it possable.
So i cleaned the magnet anyways and said the hell with it! and threw the cone back together. As i was putting everything back together i noticed that on the bottom of one of the vein ports "swirl deal" was at an angle where the washer sets. And its a good amount, id say in the area of 3-5 degrees, and remebered that 2 of the 4 stainless bolts that you can see looking past the veins on the top plate were showing 2-3 threads while the other side was flush. I think that person that rebuilt this over tightened one side of the unit causing it to be out of alignment. So i put some power to it using my Velodyne amp (clean power) and it was quite "staticy". the vein returns when pushed to the side btw. and played a 50hz wave. I loosened and tightened the 4 top bolts and realized that if I have 2 of them tight and one the other side those are loose the "static" sound gets deeper in tone (not as harsh in my opinion). So now it looks like the entire body of this clone is a big paper weight.... ill take some picks and vids when i get home around 12am.

If anyone knows of someone that might have a magnet/parts clone please have them PM me as i did pay a decent price for this guy and want to add it into my home theater experience. thanks for the help guys!!!

[ttocs]

by static, do you mean the dragging noise the vein makes when it moves aginst the plexi?

[Snailpowered]

No its more define than that, this is similar to the sounds that it makes when the magnet is dirty, it doesnt sound like grinding, tho similar, you can just tell that they are binding or at the least have resistance to moving freely. how this info helps a bit ill try to take a video and put it up on youtube.

thought that i would also add to see if it of any significants, the top cap of the stator doesnt want to come off, i can just grab it without the 4 bolts being in and pull the stator right off of the magnet assembly.
Also, one of the 4 bolts that hold the top housing on is quite difficult to pull out completely, it doesnt seem to bind until the last 2 inches or when threads start to pass thought the last few inches of the stator, some food for thought for you guys

[Snailpowered]

Hopefully this vid works, its from my photobucket account




http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b290/ ... -27_44.mp4

If not here is the link

[Snailpowered]

the noise is more noticeable at lower volumes and higher frequencies, if i play a 20hz wave at low volume it has the same sound (its almost identical to what a voilcoil sounds like when it is touching the magnet. I dont want to play it too much like this tho. The odd thing is if i put power behind it, it sounds just like a colne is supposed to sound like.

[Food4Woofers]

I had a cyclone that did the same exact noise.
When I would push the fins with my fingers it sounded like sand was in the motor. Grinding
I ended up selling it for cheap. I then bought a so called rebuilt cyclone.
That particular cyclone was also junk. I even sent it to PG for a rebuild.
It came back with no grinding and moved as it should with a finger push but I was dissapointed.
In my opinion these are not for automobiles. In order to FULLY appreciate the cyclone I had to place it far away in a corner of a large room in a sealed box with a cut off of 24db at 30hz. Any higher and you would get that buzzing sound you got in your vid at higher frequencies. It doesnt hit like a sub or have sound like a sub. It just drops like a black hole and theres no bottom to it. And when I say no bottom I mean u feel every low end note all the way to 5 hz.
The chuffing and fin noise was way too loud in a car. But, far away in a corner of a large room and it wasnt noticeable. This thing doesnt sound like a speaker. It sounds like ........
well. IDK. Just something not any speaker would sound like. Its more like air pressure. Theres nothing musical about it. Its made for super low bass notes where u cant hear it but just feel it.

So I sold it

You literally have to have a subwoofer to accommodate this cyclone because its not going to sound right above 30hz. Music has hardly no notes below 3ohz. This unit is best used for Movies. When I say it doesnt sound right I mean it sounds like your video. Like buzzing above 30hz or so.
I dont know enough to fix these but over the years reading about these, they are more trouble than they are worth. Unless you have a large movie theater room. You will most likely have to send that broken unit off to PG to get it fixed. And it wont be cheap. I paid , I think $150 if I remember correctly. Every write up Ive read ended in a "had to send it off for a rebuild"
Its nature is to wear out. Even if u dont abuse it , it will eventually start grinding and sound like crap.
If you are a real diehard audio enthusiast like I have been, Id try all I can to fix it myself and then send it off to get it fixed and then play with it for a while to see for myself if I like it. Just to say I had it. If you have the money , go for it. Fix it up and play around with it. Its a really cool item. But it will piss you off if you let it. Cause this thing aint a speaker. LOL
You will be very dissapointed and puzzled at first. But when you put it in the right condition OMG... Its not for everyone. So just remember the Cyclone is a really special item that isnt really a speaker. Its an air compressor. LOL
Good Luck

[ttocs]

the clone was never said to be an all around sub and was never good for anything above 50 hz. I was only lucky enough to install one for a customer and we matched it with a single 10 and that little honda POUNDED and didn't sound bad sq wise either. To this day I can still remember it flexing the rear deck(under the back window) enough that it send my cordless drill flying into my lap very quickly. The noise it made were audible if you opened the trunk but otherwise all you heard from it were boatloads of bass.........

Too bad it could have not stuck around and gone though a couple of revisions to improve them. They were expensive as hell to research from what I hear but I have to wonder if any of the technology discovered since then could make a better product.

[Food4Woofers]

Hey there is a cyclone of ebay.. Unfortunately the price is in my opinion waaaay too high.
There is a offer option. But from my experience, when there is such a high asking price the offer button is usually useless.

[Snailpowered]

Good looking out ill check it out, ill pm him and see what he will take.

[ttocs]

what is a grand really worth these days now?

[kg1961]

what is a grand really worth these days now?

ya but that is if it works alot of old clone don't work just sitting there

[Snailpowered]

Yeahhhhh.......
after seeing his asking price.... and the tbought that im sure he has never serviced it and most likely has demonstrated it to his buddies, im betting that that magnet it toast too. Well that and the fact this is $1000!!!!!, for that kind of money i would buy 2 of the tc sounds 15" neo's and call it a day. Im thinking of just asking the guy that i bought it from to just give me back $200or bucks and call the rest of it a loss...

[Shinju]

I have owned 2 and I still have one left I am selling.

That buzzing noise is what they do, They are not ment for full range or anything over 50hz with a minimal 18db recommended 24db slope. Both of mine make that sound and one was new out of box even after it was cleaned by a guy who has been rebuilding them for years.


As stated above they sound like shit when playing them alone they are ment for blending into a substage and a good front stage of a car. I have never ran one in a house so I cannot comment on that.

[Snailpowered]

Oh i guess i should have clarified my words from an earlier post. I know that this is not a "subwoofer" and i dont treat it as such. I have this paired up with a velodyne 12 w/a passive radiator on it. The velodyne gets down fiarly low for what it is. So my plans were to model each "sub" independantly and have the velodyne and clone cross over each other at around 40Hz, or where ever the velodyne becomes inefficant. Ie. Velodyne will have a bandpass xover and the clone would be a lowpass xover. Hope that clarified any thoughts that i might be playing the clone at too high of a frequency. When i said that at higher frequencies would make the distortion by higher frequencies i was pertaining to around 50hza or so.

[Snailpowered]

I have owned 2 and I still have one left I am selling.

That buzzing noise is what they do, They are not ment for full range or anything over 50hz with a minimal 18db recommended 24db slope. Both of mine make that sound and one was new out of box even after it was cleaned by a guy who has been rebuilding them for years.


As stated above they sound like shit when playing them alone they are ment for blending into a substage and a good front stage of a car. I have never ran one in a house so I cannot comment on that.

so shinju,

it is normal for them to sound like the magnet is rubbing against the stator?" there is no grinding or binding on the veins, and they return to their centered position, so from what you have experienced this is a normal occurance? Is there anyone else that can confirm this? as being very mechanically inclined, this seems to be very irregular to me.

Also,
Shinju what are you looking to get for the clone?
thanks,

[Shinju]

There should be ZERO grind or rub and yes the vein should return to top dead center.

These units require a cleaning even if not in use I would bet it would be safe to say once every 2 years if used normal, maybe once a year if you beat on it and run it hard.

The buzz noise is normal I too was doing the WTF face when I first heard one outside of one being in a finished system. That is why they are ment to be tossed in a trunk as you are not supposed to know were the bass is coming from.

As far as SQ goes there is no equal in how low this thing can do diaphram subwoofers cannot mechanicly do what this can do at 15Hz with out getting mechanical or unload.

I really wanted to run the pair I had I sold one and will be selling the other as my plans have changed for my one install.

[Food4Woofers]

I had 2 Cyclones. One was totally refurbed from PG like New.
The new/rebuilt Cyclones will NOT make any grinding.
When pushing the fins and letting go, they will move back in original position like a normal speaker cone.
So to compare a cyclone to a normal speaker, imagine you are pushing on a subwoofers' speaker cone. A good subwoofer cone will bounce back in place with no noise from the voice coil at all. Same should be with the Cyclone. U want the fins to move freely and without noise and then bounce back into place.

Now, when you power the cyclone there will be a buzzing noise like in the video above. Its normal. Thats is the cyclone trying to reproduce frequencies it cant produce correctly. This is why you have to cut it off at 50hz and even lower with 24db cutoff to get rid of most of that noise. If you over power it you will get a cloud Clacking noise. That is the fins hitting against the whirlpool looking thing. It means you are breaking it. So turn it down. Also, there will be a chuffing noise. The chuffing is from the air passing between the fins and the tube. Cant get around that. This thing needs a special amount of air or it will not work right. The motor has very little tension on it. The fins need that extra air cushion in sealed enclosures. You will also hear a weird knocking noise. Thats also normal. Its the motor going from positive to negative postition. It sounds like a small air compressor kicking on when its filling with air. LOL So yea. This thing makes some serious distortion up close.
This is why you should use this in a far away place or, like some said, in a trunk. Although in my opion this is not for cars or trucks. You cant get the full effect in a vehichle. You need a large room.
EVERYBODY is like WTF when they first hear it cause they expect this magically delicious bass from heaven. Instead what you hear is a nightmare of clicking and chuffing LOL. Especially in a car.
This is why people keep it for home theater and stash them in the floor or ceiling where u cant hear all that noise. Plus the bass notes this thing creates needs tens of feet to properly be reproduced. Not just a few feet like you find in a car or truck. The lower the bass note the LONGER the wave. Theres no way you will properly hear or even feel a 20hz bass note in a car. Bass is a very long shock wave of sound that needs to have allot of space to be heard and felt.

Id have to say 90to 95 % of the people who buy the Cyclone and use it end up selling in within the week LOL. They say " WTH did I buy? I need to get rid of this shitake" But this thing is awesome IF YOU KNOW HOW TO USE IT.

And it isnt a toy. You have to really know how to use it. You cant just crank it up and expect magic.
Personally I just couldnt deal with the thing. It takes allot of time to make it sound right. Then you have to clean it and if you take it apart u better make sure you know what your doin are u just ruined it.

SO, the main thing is how to tell if u have a good cyclone. Push the fins. If it grinds its junk. If the fins dont move back to there original position just like a speaker cone would , its junk.
If you want to fix the junk expect to pay allot to get it fixed. Then expect to get it fixed every year or so cause the the magnets inside are brittle and create that sandy dusty stuff that makes it grind.
Just sayin....Not trying to rain on anybodies parade. Just tellin it like it is.

[joerg]

This was a few years back at mhyde´71´s place! I got to say that we both were pretty impressed what the clone is capable of after we serviced it.

[Snailpowered]

I have listened to your video multiple times, there is a section of the video at 14that seconds in, that you can visually see the veins moving about a 1/4" one way movement, i have played a 35hz wave and at the 1/4"vein movement as seen in your video and i have an audible noise, that sounds like a conventional speakers voice coil rubbing against the magnet. This is the noise that i am concerned about, if you watch the video that i I posted you can see the differance between the two clones. In my video i have the clone being xover at 50hz. So this is not the audible noise that is heard when playing the clone out of its ability. I hate to sound like im being repetitive, just trying to make more sence of the statements that i have previously posted.

[joerg]

Forget about music and play a sinus wave of 25Hz and record a video. With music in the background it´s hard to tell if it s ok or not. But my guess is that something with the bearings is wrong.

[ttocs]

the noise you describe to me sounds as though the normal noise it is known to make.