Phoenix Gold Phorum

hay guys im currently in the process of building my new system this is why i bought the zx350 but having reading round this forum im thinking of buying a m series amp for front and and using the zx once repaired for sub

just need to know in your guys opinon what the best sq amp pg ever made

i allways thought the zpa series was the bast but after reading around here alot recommend the m series amp

whats your thoughts

kedge

I am biased.

I prefer the Elite Amps.

So many of the lines are just incredible.

It is hard to chose, but for old school any of the the M, MS, or ZX will be great.

... Meh, anything PG with triple darlington design really.

i know it was not made to be sold but
mph6300
http://webfaq.phoenixphorum.com/MPH6300.htm

I ran a ZX450v2 and a ZPA0.3 both on mids/highs, power differences aside, I prefer the ZPA.

What I ran was:
450 active on a set of PG Elite 6's
0.3 passively on the same Elite 6's.

To take that for what it's worth.

ZPA ftw!

Not sure, but on the same speaker set up, same car, the M100 sounded more full than my TI or MS2125...


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freshkryp69 wrote:ZPA ftw!

I personally fell in love with the sound of a zpa0.5 with balanced linedriver tbat2 and balanced cable.

out of all the zx,zpa,m and ms series.....(all great sounding amps of course)

for me this one goes above all the others......

I know I may get flamed for this but I would say the Xenon amps were probably the best.

Gotta vote for the TI line, the 500.4 and 800.1 I currently have and the other versions I've run have sounded the best outta all the amps I've owned.

Old Ti amps were my favorite. Ti500.4, Ti600.2, Ti400.2 and Ti800.1 were all great amps.

Never heard the other models in the Ti line, but I suspect they were the same.

Francious70 wrote:I know I may get flamed for this but I would say the Xenon amps were probably the best.

You have some guts to post that, so I will do my best to back you up.

The Xenon amps sound just as good as any other PG amp, even the older ones. Due to their large output power (more than most any other PG amp) they may even sound a bit better (more power often means more control).

I think the only reason Xenon never got the credit deserved is for all the other assortment of complaints such as reliability, size, cosmetics, where they were made, internet sales, etc...

I currently use an X200.4 in one of my vehicles, and no other PG amp has the same level of power, with the same SQ, which can fit in the space I have available.

I was thinking the Xenons myself for the very reasons Eric pointed out. But I've still gotta say that the ZPAs are my overall pick.

smgreen20 wrote:I was thinking the Xenons myself for the very reasons Eric pointed out. But I've still gotta say that the ZPAs are my overall pick.

I'm with you!

The Xenons are a very good amp. The local shop I used to work at was a PG dealer when the Xenon line was released. I've installed quite a few of them and although I never cared for the looks, they were a very good sounding amp. They were certainly the best we had up on our boards which included the Kicker "top of the line" SX amps, as well as Alpines and Orions (HCCA's and Xtremes).

But, I always looked at the Xenons as a "me too" amp modeled after the JL Slash amps. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but in all honesty, the JL's sounded just as good and were a smaller footprint ... just saying.

I still wouldn't put them (Xenons) in the same tier as the ZPA's. The ZPA's were the new "Elites" of their time. Actually, I would even put the ZPA's ahead of the Elites in terms of "pushing the envelope". Now I'm not saying the ZPA's are better perfroming than the Elites, so please don't take that the wrong way, but even as nice as the new Elites are, there's really nothing advanced or "unheard of" going on there. They are really just a very well executed design that use some of the best components available The ZPA's were ahead of their time with all of the goodies the engineers threw in there like the dual rail power supply. This was virtually "unheard of" back then. On top of that they offered audiophile grade "Wima" capacitors throughout their "discrete" input stage. A fully discrete input stage is unheard of even for todays amps! They also implemented high speed Schottky rectifiers, huge high quality TO264 Motorola MJL3281a & MJL1302a BJT ouputs, balanced line inputs, and the list goes on. Everything about these amps simply exudes "designed for power AND sound quality"!

Now there's no argument that the ZPA's have had their fair share of reliablity issues, and I won't argue with that. However, all of these issues are well worth fixing imo. I think I will always be biased towards these amps simply for the fact that they were designed with a "no limits....push the envelope" mentality. And yes, they do sound pretty freakn' amazing

xenons lost their name with the cold solder problems in the first run I thought even though pg went above and beyond to repair them. That was why I went with the rsd line, similar amp but I liked the design a little more and had good reliability.

If the elites were out when I started collecting for this build I probably would have done them, just took too long for them to build something beyond the last line I don't even care to mention as part of pg....

Hello people
I've installed some time now, the MS series, and have nothing bad to say about a very nice sounding amp, unfortunately, is everything good old time.
I'm in the process, the MS series to expand and, to this new elite series.
I can then tell how does the new Elite Series.
But I am always a friend of PG so this series is also sure to be a TOP product of PG ...
Not only old series are beautiful but also the NEW
Greetings Geri

well another vote for the xenon series here the 200.4 has bags of power and sounds good plus has lots of control with the built in crossovers etc
there very well built too thats what both my projects are built on currently

I do think the ZPA is the closest PG came to a perfect amp back in the day, but once I found out they were not a dual mono design, I lost respect for them. At that time nearly every serious manufacturer was building dual mono amplifiers, and this point was high on their list of marketing bullets.

PG would have been better off to scrap the dual voltage supply and go with dual mono instead. This would have given the ZPA the separation spec to keep up with all the excellent components used, (Wima caps, discrete parts, etc).

So, with that in mind, give me a pair of ZX500v2 amps any day over a ZPA0.5. With the ZX500s you get more power (I would use them bridged stereo into components), better SQ (the separation gained from two separate amps more than makes up for the ZPAs discrete design), and a useful crossover should you decide to use it. I own a lot of ZX500s, and many of them also have Wima caps in them. I never figured out PGs thinking with this. Maybe when they quit making ZPAs they had a lot left over so they stuck them in ZX500s. I just know I have a some amps with them, and some without.

The only problem I see with ZX amps is also a major problem with ZPA amps, the fans. As much as I prefer a fan in an amp, PG ran these fans way to fast. Either a ZX or a ZPA has too loud of fans to be used in the same cabin as the listener. These amps require you to mount them somewhere out of range of ears. When I listen to a ZPA on my test bench for example, I often unplug the fans and only listen for a few minutes at a time to keep the amps from overheating. Now, this would never be a problem driving down the road (in most vehicles), but if you stop to listen critically to an installation, annoying fans just don't cut it.

Well we can agree to disagree!

By saying that a true dual mono power supply is necessary for an sq oriented amp, also states that you can actually "hear" any potential IM distortin created from the power supply. That's just silliness! Poor channel separation is much more of an issue with board design (component layout) than with the power supply design. The most important factor pertaining to the power supply is to simply be robust enough for the output stage to do its job. I've come to realise that ttue dual mono power supplies are more significant to the marketing department than to the actual performance of the amplifier.

I find it amusing how at one point you state that the ZPA line was the best, but once you discovered that they weren't "dual mono" you all of a sudden "lost respect" for them. So in other words, some how some way, you let the design of the amp influence how well (or not so well) it sounds!!!??? If a dual mono design was truly that significant, I whole heartedly believe that the engineers of the ZPA would have done so in the line. It really would not be all that difficult to add another pwm and change a few components if it was going to be beneficial.

I'll also add that the new Elite 4 that you reviewed is "not" a true dual mono power supply either! Yet you claim that that amp sounds "perfect". Now I'm not going to argue with your opinion of how well the Elite amp sounds, but at the same time, it only signifies how litte of importance a true dual mono power supply really is!

Also, I still can't figure out how the power supply design can be compared to an input stage design? I fail to see how one can "make up for" or "detract from" the other.... weird

I will agree with you about the fans however. No question. If I had a hatch or pick up truck, I just might look elsewhere. Thankfully, I'm not worried about it with my Accord. Fortunately however, you can upgrade the fans to modern lower noise units!

Shawn, thanks for taking something based 100% on opinion and somehow turning it into an argument...

You win. The ZPA is the best sounding amp PG ever made. This is not an opinion, because you said so, and since you are the top authority on how everyone in the world hears, you have deemed it law.

PG might as well just close up shop, as they will never be able to make anything like the perfectly flawless ZPA, and any attempt is just a complete waste of effort...

After all, having a dual mono power supply is a total waste of resources, and does nothing for the sound of an amplifier. When PG built this into the MS series it was a total mistake, and they never realized their folly until the design was already being mass produced.

And to clarify, ALL the $10,000+ home amps out there with separate power supply are all just junk. Their owners should throw them in the river, go buy a 20A Radio Shack power supply and a beat to death ZPA off eBay, and then they would really have some great sound.

And as for me personally, the ZPAs that I have owned but did not like as much as other PG amps, well that is just nonsense. I am not entitled to my opinion and I was wrong. I should take all my other PG amps, set them out on the local railroad tracks, and then refinance my home so I can buy every single ZPA amp which pops up on eBay for the the rest of my life.

When it comes to car audio amplifiers, Shawn K says "It's ZPA or NOTHING BABY!"

Eric D wrote:Shawn, thanks for taking something based 100% on opinion and somehow turning it into an argument...

You win. The ZPA is the best sounding amp PG ever made. This is not an opinion, because you said so, and since you are the top authority on how everyone in the world hears, you have deemed it law.

PG might as well just close up shop, as they will never be able to make anything like the perfectly flawless ZPA, and any attempt is just a complete waste of effort...

After all, having a dual mono power supply is a total waste of resources, and does nothing for the sound of an amplifier. When PG built this into the MS series it was a total mistake, and they never realized their folly until the design was already being mass produced.

And to clarify, ALL the $10,000+ home amps out there with separate power supply are all just junk. Their owners should throw them in the river, go buy a 20A Radio Shack power supply and a beat to death ZPA off eBay, and then they would really have some great sound.

And as for me personally, the ZPAs that I have owned but did not like as much as other PG amps, well that is just nonsense. I am not entitled to my opinion and I was wrong. I should take all my other PG amps, set them out on the local railroad tracks, and then refinance my home so I can buy every single ZPA amp which pops up on eBay for the the rest of my life.

When it comes to car audio amplifiers, Shawn K says "It's ZPA or NOTHING BABY!"

Cool... I'm glad you see it my way

Eric D wrote:

Francious70 wrote:I know I may get flamed for this but I would say the Xenon amps were probably the best.

You have some guts to post that, so I will do my best to back you up.

The Xenon amps sound just as good as any other PG amp, even the older ones. Due to their large output power (more than most any other PG amp) they may even sound a bit better (more power often means more control).

I think the only reason Xenon never got the credit deserved is for all the other assortment of complaints such as reliability, size, cosmetics, where they were made, internet sales, etc...

I currently use an X200.4 in one of my vehicles, and no other PG amp has the same level of power, with the same SQ, which can fit in the space I have available.

Good to know I've got you in my corner. You're one of the few who's opinion I trust.

I have used nothing but a X100.4 for years now and absolutely LOVE it. Ease of system design, plenty of overhead if you run high impedance loads, and best of all PROTECTION since they will limit output automatically if it gets to hot. That last part cannot be underestimated here in the south were we had temps over 100* for a month solid and the amp is in your trunk.