Looking for warm sound--PG M25 or M50?

mr.gone · Post by **mr.gone** » Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:45 am

Hi all -- Great site! First-time poster here. I'm in Minnesota and my window of opportunity for installing an amp is quickly closing. So I'd appreciate some advice from those who are familiar with how PG old-school amps compare with others, such as PPI, Orion, Kicker, RF, Soundstream, etc.

I've got some Imagine 6.5s that are great, running of the HU power of a Clarion DRX785USB. The problem is when I run an iPod through it, the compressed nature of the sound leads to some hard-to-control harshness. I'm thinking an amp that leans toward the warmer side -- rounded off highs, full midrange -- would be helpful. My understanding is that PG is on the warmer side of the continuum, with PPI more detailed and analytical. I've also heard that Soundstream amps such as the D60 and D100 are on the warm side. Also have heard good and bad things about a/d/s Power Plates in this regard.

I'm itching to grab something from eBay and get it installed in the next couple of weeks, but I don't want to hook it up and find out that the sound is all wrong.

FYI -- I realize that adding a sub would probably give more control, but that's beyond the budget and time available for the moment. Maybe in the spring.

Really appreciate any and all comments.

Michael in Minnesota

finbar · Post by **finbar** » Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:53 pm

Welcome to the phorum.

Have you tried different compression modes?

An amp is going to trump HU power.

I am liking the 785USB in my ride, it's an excellent HU for the money.

Mr. Wild · Post by **Mr. Wild** » Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:33 pm

I run an M50 for my front speakers and I really like the sound. The highs are not rounded at all, just perfectly natural and sweet sounding. The M25 is probably just as good and powerful for running comps.

Harsh sounding recordings are soooo familiar with me, especially when playing them in packed format, MP3 etc. PG amps are very accurate and high definition by nature, so bad recordings sound bad through them. The cure is to listen to good recordings

I wouldn't rush into using M-series amps, because they usually need a bit of service. The power supply caps need replacing if they are original. Otherwise you run the risk of burning a nice amp

mr.gone · Post by **mr.gone** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:57 pm

finbar wrote:Welcome to the phorum.

Have you tried different compression modes?

An amp is going to trump HU power.

I am liking the 785USB in my ride, it's an excellent HU for the money.

Hi -- yes, I use the different compression modes when I can. The source that gives me fits is Spotify through my iPhone. It's great to have whatever song you want at your disposal, but you have no control over compression. Even using the highest setting they make available, it's hit and miss, depending on the source recording.

I know that I need a good amp, but now I'm thinking I really should bi-amp and take advantage of the 785's parametric EQ features so I can tame the wild tweeter beast when necessary. Only problem is that the 785 display can be damn near illegible in daylight, as you know, so I'll have to curb my impulse to tinker too much while driving. Better my ears suffer than to have a wreck.

mr.gone · Post by **mr.gone** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:21 pm

Mr. Wild wrote:I run an M50 for my front speakers and I really like the sound. The highs are not rounded at all, just perfectly natural and sweet sounding. The M25 is probably just as good and powerful for running comps.

Harsh sounding recordings are soooo familiar with me, especially when playing them in packed format, MP3 etc. PG amps are very accurate and high definition by nature, so bad recordings sound bad through them. The cure is to listen to good recordings

I wouldn't rush into using M-series amps, because they usually need a bit of service. The power supply caps need replacing if they are original. Otherwise you run the risk of burning a nice amp

Thanks, Mr. Wild. I appreciate the warning about the caps. Lately I've been in contact with a guy who's a PPI Art fan willing to sell me something guaranteed to have received proper upgrading. So I am concluding that you're right -- good recordings are essential if at all possible, and you can't really expect an amp that is doing its job to correct for the harshness. As I mentioned in the other response, I can see if using my HU's parametric EQ controls can reduce the ear bleeds.

It's interesting, though, to hear how differently an old home receiver from the 60s or early 70s reproduces music compared to a lot of the newer stuff. The engineers in the 60s figured out how to achieve a full, musical sound from solid-state components even in the mainstream, mass-distribution, entry-level receivers.

I guess it's a whole different story in car audio, given the restricted space, cooling issues, power supplies and the like. The first high-quality car amps didn't even come out before home audio made its fateful turn to printed circuit board ... well, I'm rambling like an old man now, so I'll just sign off and say thanks for the information!

00goobs · Post by **00goobs** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:28 pm

If you were in Houston, I'd let you test an M series in your car. I thought I heard a difference between the MS 2125 and M100 everything else being the same. It may have been my imagination, but I really liked the sound of the M100 even over my TI500.4.

Also, I noticed a huge difference between the silk dome and metal dome tweeters. In case you haven't tried that yet...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

mr.gone · Post by **mr.gone** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:33 pm

00goobs wrote:If you were in Houston, I'd let you test an M series in your car. I thought I heard a difference between the MS 2125 and M100 everything else being the same. It may have been my imagination, but I really liked the sound of the M100 even over my TI500.4.

Also, I noticed a huge difference between the silk dome and metal dome tweeters. In case you haven't tried that yet...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Thanks -- no Houston trips in the foreseeable future, unfortunately. The speakers I have are silk domed tweeter, and yes, I know what you mean about metal domes. Terrible, most of the time, if you hate harshness. Had some MB Quarts 20 years ago -- the "good" ones from Germany - with metal domes. Couldn't stand them.

Post by **kg1961** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:57 am

i have had aton of old school mb quart i found with a little grill cloth on them they sound great

finbar · Post by **finbar** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:33 am

Hi -- yes, I use the different compression modes when I can. The source that gives me fits is Spotify through my iPhone. It's great to have whatever song you want at your disposal, but you have no control over compression. Even using the highest setting they make available, it's hit and miss, depending on the source recording.

I know that I need a good amp, but now I'm thinking I really should bi-amp and take advantage of the 785's parametric EQ features so I can tame the wild tweeter beast when necessary. Only problem is that the 785 display can be damn near illegible in daylight, as you know, so I'll have to curb my impulse to tinker too much while driving. Better my ears suffer than to have a wreck.

I haven't tried streaming music yet, I just installed 8track on the 'phone for shits and giggles, thanks for the idea

I set iTunes for importing CDs to 128kbs AAC encoder (itunes default setting), that gets me good sound with a small enough file size. I played around with it initially, comparing the CD to different compression settings, YMMV. Production values do vary among the CDs in my collection, it's baked in.

Going active with the 785 has worked well for me, so much flexibility. There's no way I can drive and go through tuning crossover points, slopes, time alignment and and and ..... although I do like a little death and destruction in the morning

.

I finally settled on the Vifa XT25 ring radiator tweeter for my application, I have the large format on the dash for the last 4 years.

OK gotta go try 8track in the car,
carry on!

oldskoolmseriesfan · Post by **oldskoolmseriesfan** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:08 pm

finbar wrote:
Hi -- yes, I use the different compression modes when I can. The source that gives me fits is Spotify through my iPhone. It's great to have whatever song you want at your disposal, but you have no control over compression. Even using the highest setting they make available, it's hit and miss, depending on the source recording.

I know that I need a good amp, but now I'm thinking I really should bi-amp and take advantage of the 785's parametric EQ features so I can tame the wild tweeter beast when necessary. Only problem is that the 785 display can be damn near illegible in daylight, as you know, so I'll have to curb my impulse to tinker too much while driving. Better my ears suffer than to have a wreck.
I haven't tried streaming music yet, I just installed 8track on the 'phone for shits and giggles, thanks for the idea

I set iTunes for importing CDs to 128kbs AAC encoder (itunes default setting), that gets me good sound with a small enough file size. I played around with it initially, comparing the CD to different compression settings, YMMV. Production values do vary among the CDs in my collection, it's baked in.

Going active with the 785 has worked well for me, so much flexibility. There's no way I can drive and go through tuning crossover points, slopes, time alignment and and and ..... although I do like a little death and destruction in the morning .

I finally settled on the Vifa XT25 ring radiator tweeter for my application, I have the large format on the dash for the last 4 years.

OK gotta go try 8track in the car,
carry on!

mmmm... 8 track in dads dodge dart pumpin the doobie bros!!!!

finbar · Post by **finbar** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:23 pm