Planning An Install For My New Truck

Kirghiz · Post by **Kirghiz** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:22 pm

Hey all, new member here. I grew up on Phoenix Gold back in the 90's, with the M100 and M44, and have been missing those amps lol. The new Phoenix Gold sounds like it has finally gotten back to that level of awesome again, so I am planning a PG system for my new truck. My most recent system was about 10 years ago, so I have been out of the hobby for a while and am just now getting back in. No coincidence, the reason I got out is because I need a truck for what I do, and I just couldn't build the system I wanted in a truck. I'll be getting the new truck in about a week, and it is going to be a Chevy Silverado Crew Cab. Going for the crew cab specifically for the added cab space for the system. It'd be nice to have a car with a trunk, but I gotta have a truck, so that's my problem. The truck has to retain all of it's factory function in terms of seating, so the amps and subs all basically have to fit under the back seats. Fortunately (or not depending on your POV) I am older now, so having a system that is going to knock pictures off my neighbor's walls isn't a priority. It's all about sound quality now. Also, I am on a budget, and while I know I am going to overshoot the budget, I have to keep it close. Therefore it is going to be mid-range price components for the most part. 99% of what will be listened to on this system will be rock/hard rock. So, that's the story and intent of the system.

I've pretty much decided on the SD1300.5 to power the whole system. Aside from that, I'm up in the air. JL makes a stealthbox for this truck that houses a pair of 10w3v3's that can take 1000 watts at 2 ohms, which is right in line with the SD1300.5. Everywhere I look on the web, the 10w3v3 is anointed as God's gift to 10" subs, but the stealthbox is $850 msrp, and I really like the look of a pair of Phoenix Gold Ti210d2's. The stealthbox has both subs under the driver side seat, so I figure I can at least get a PG sub under each seat in a sealed enclosure if need be, with enough space in the middle for the amp, and do it cheaper than $850. That being said, I don't have a problem with the price of the stealthbox if the JL subs are as great as everyone says. The lack of info on the PG Ti subs is killing me. The review I read on the PG Elite subs was fantastic, but these are a different animal. As far as mids and highs I was looking at 2 sets of Polk DB6501's because I had Polk component speakers in my old system and I loved them. Also looking at some Infinity Kappa 6.5" components because they are tried and true, and still get great reviews after all these years. Then again, the PG Ti265cs 6.5" components look pretty sweet too.

Back in the day Phoenix Gold was known for their amps, but the speakers kind of sucked. The new brand is a new brand, so I know that I can't take anything from that, and the new speakers appear to be strides better than the old speakers. Right or wrong I am getting a Phoenix Gold amp, but would I be a fool for betting against JL Audio subs and Polk or Infinity Kappa components? especially since there are zero reviews out there about the mid-price PG speakers? This is my dilemma.

Sorry about the wall of text.

Post by **smgreen20** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:47 pm

What year is the truck? Up to the 07 OBS the ext cabs have more room then the crew cabs.

JL??? Ahe! There's better for less, but I have yet to hear the box you're talking about so I can not give advise on that. Personally, I'd go with something else. At $850 you could buy 2 subs of your choice and have someone build you a custom box for them, probably for less too.

PG's comps back in the mid/late '90s were the sh!t. Actually, IMO, PG has struggled to get back to that point and are making great strides in doing so.

Are you planning on keeping the factory HU?

EQ/processors going in?

The 1300.5 would be a great amp. I'd love to have one too.

AND.... Welcome to the site.

Post by **Eric D** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:59 am

I know I will catch hell for this, but...

I don't think PG speakers have ever been all that great.

Sure they had some good products here and there, but PG does better with amplifiers. There were plenty of speaker only companies back in the day with far superior speakers to choose from.

But, we all know what they say about opinions...

Opinions are like...

PhuckinGood · Post by **PhuckinGood** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:00 am

Anyone running the new Elite componants that can give us all some feedback?

I would like to try them too, to replace some Focal anniversaries but its a £350 gamble as I havnt heard anything about them.

Welcome to the forum

Kirghiz · Post by **Kirghiz** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:54 pm

Thanks for the replies.

It's going to be a 2012 Silverado Crew Cab. I am going to be replacing the head unit, but I haven't put a lot of thought into that yet. I've set aside about $500 in the system budget for it.

Since I posted this I discovered Sundown Audio, and I am leaning toward some configuration of their subs now. Probably going to have to go with a multiple amp setup if I do that, but still want Phoenix Gold amps.

I would like 4 SA v2 8's, but they pretty much require ported boxes which I won't have room for. I saw a video where a guy did 4 of them ported, but he raised the seat 3 inches to do it. I could definitely do 4 SD v2 8's which are designed for sealed enclosures, and these apparently work in 0.25 cubic feet, so 4 should work. Sundown is very conservative on the power ratings of their speakers, and these are rated at 300 rms. I figure a Ti1500.1 at 1 ohm on the subs and a Ti600.4 at 4 ohm on the highs would work. Could also do a pair of SD 10's I guess, and still go with the SD1300.5. Still undecided.

vladthebad · Post by **vladthebad** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:22 pm

Seen a ton of brofists and hardons over sundown... Haven't actually heard any that sounded good. I do know that lots of people sell em used. That must mean either they aren't happy with them or they need the money to buy something else. How long does your average pg owner own something? Longer than sundown audio has been around I think. I might be wrong, but I'd get a few more opinions.

Post by **ttocs** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:41 pm

Eric D wrote:I know I will catch hell for this, but...

I don't think PG speakers have ever been all that great.

Sure they had some good products here and there, but PG does better with amplifiers. There were plenty of speaker only companies back in the day with far superior speakers to choose from.

But, we all know what they say about opinions...

Opinions are like...

I agree, with the exception of the Ti Elite speakes but then we all know that was morel more then pg. Did more then a few installs with zero point componants and just never really was impressed with them myself.

Kirghiz · Post by **Kirghiz** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:59 pm

vladthebad wrote:Seen a ton of brofists and hardons over sundown... Haven't actually heard any that sounded good. I do know that lots of people sell em used. That must mean either they aren't happy with them or they need the money to buy something else. How long does your average pg owner own something? Longer than sundown audio has been around I think. I might be wrong, but I'd get a few more opinions.

That's true about seeing a lot for sale used. I live in a part of the country where I have to drive 3 hours to hear something in a store display, say nothing for seeing a competent install. I plan to drive three hours to hear Phoenix Gold before buying. I used to do installs for people in high school and was quite knowledgeable about what was quality equipment and what wasn't. However, that was a long time ago, and the last system I did was around '98 or '99, and I got out of the hobby entirely. I missed the whole "car audio armageddon" that seemingly happened in the last decade or so. Brands that I used to regard as quality have gone to hell or no longer exist, and really the only one that I am sure is still at the same level that it was then is JL Audio. They seem to have become what Rockford Fosgate was back then. I'm suspect of everything else. Phoenix Gold seems alright to me, at least as their amplifiers go, because of AAMP taking them over.

I look around the internet to research the industry, and I find myself having to sort through bullshit fanboy forum posts, and company propaganda. If there is a website that does scientific testing like the car audio magazines used to do I haven't found it. It's a fairly frustrating process to be honest. I can find all sorts of info on the internet, but not knowing what info is good and what info isn't sort of makes it all useless.

The Sundown subs do look to be well made. Aside from that I have no idea. Any advice on who makes good SQ subs these days would be appreciated. Sundown, Dayton, and Digital Designs are the ones that keep popping up on the web, but they all seem to be SPL applications. SPL is fine for me if it sounds good, but I'm going to be listening to music exclusively. The days of listening to bass music to show off the system and busting window seals are behind me.

Drock · Post by **Drock** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:32 pm

Check out hertz, they make some kick ass 8" subs. I have 5 of them and they sound great and they handle very well.

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Kirghiz · Post by **Kirghiz** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:48 pm

Drock wrote:Check out hertz, they make some kick ass 8" subs. I have 5 of them and they sound great and they handle very well.

The ES200's would be an option. That is the only 8" I saw in the current catalog. They have a decent sensitivity at 87db, but only 200w rms, though that isn't a huge deal because I'd be looking to run 4 of them. They only offer them in four ohm single coil, which limits my amp choices to a 2 channel bridged to 4 ohm or a D Class at 1 ohm. Either of those choices are fine, but it makes the SD1300.5 not be an option because it hits 800w at 2 ohm.

I could do a pair of HX250 10" subs and run them on the SD1300.5 at 2 ohm, but that would have to be down firing, and from the picture they look like they'd require a lot of depth that I don't think I have. I found no specs on enclosure size or depth so I'm just guessing where they have the double magnets.

Are you running your 8's sealed or ported? How much space do they like?

Kirghiz · Post by **Kirghiz** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:42 am

Really, to give an idea of what I'm looking for is something close to (4) 8" Oz Audio 200L's or (2) 10" Oz Audio 250L's. When I started planning this system the first thing I did was Google Phoenix Gold, and of course found their website and this one. Then I Googled Oz Audio and was completely crestfallen to find out they were no more. Oz made the best SQ subs of all time imo. Coupling them with an M50 or M100 was car audio perfection. I don't want to get into 20 year old gear, though some folks do that. With as much trouble as I am having with finding good modern gear I can't say as I blame them.

I've read good things about RE SE-X subs for SQ in a sealed box. Anyone got an opinion on those?

Post by **smgreen20** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:19 pm

On Erics comment, WTF MAN!!!!!!!! Are you kidding me!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just busting your balls.

I will say this, I loved their Sapphire series comps and their ZP comps. I have yet to listen to the pair of NIB XS comps I have, but...... that's me.

Sundown you say? Their subs are good, I will attest to that. Their amps I'm not so woowhoo about.
Here's a friends truck. 48 10" Sundowns. Stupid loud for only 233 watts each iir.

CLICK ON PIC BELOW, IT'S A VIDEO.

He has since done away with that set up. Going for something louder.

He's always doing this. Don't think that it's because the subs suck, he just doesn't stay with any one set up for very long.

Kirghiz · Post by **Kirghiz** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:19 am

That's a bit more than I'm trying to do lol.

They're beastly subs, I don't doubt that a bit. My question about them is how are they for SQ? I question that about the Sundowns, SSA's, and even the DD's. Every install I see using those involves a bunch of them and a ton of power pushing 160db. I'd be satisfied with 130ish that sounds good. In fact my wife said she'd divorce me if she heard me thumping in the neighborhood like I did my last system, so intense volume isn't the priority lol.

Really I'm just wanting a system built around one of Phoenix Gold 5 channel amps. Thinking strongly about the Elite.5 at this point, but if it doesn't come out soon it's going to be the Ti or SD 5 channel. I can only fit a pair of 10's sealed, or 3 or 4 8's sealed, and they're only going to have 800 to 1200 watts rms, so it isn't going to be thundering no matter what I do.

Leaning toward Phoenix Gold Ti2 10's, RE SE-X 10's, or JL 10w3v3's at this point I think. Morel's cost too much or I'd just get those and be done. I like the look of the Sundowns, but I need someone to tell me a pair or single sounds as good as one of the aforementioned subs. I have to drive three hours to hear anything in a shop, so I'm relying a lot on other's opinions before seeking out a dealer.

Post by **smgreen20** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:44 am

I've heard two 8"s and four 8"s, both in ported boxes. The four 8"s were amazing. The type of ported box they were in had A LOT to do with it too. The two 8"s sounded very good too. If you can fit it, I'd (personally) get two 8"s ported. Was amazed at the sound and output they had. Two 10"2 sealed might not be to bad either.

Post by **Eric D** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:10 am

The cardboard box in the back of the Ford truck adds that last little something to finish off the installation...

Kirghiz · Post by **Kirghiz** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:24 am

Judging by the pre-made boxes I have seen that are built to go under the seat of a crew cab, I only have about 1.2 or 1.3 cubic total to work with. I think even a pair of SA 8's ported are out because they call for 0.75 cubic without the port. Sundown also makes an SDv2 line that is designed for sealed enclosures, and the company engineer demo'd 2 prototypes of the 8's in a sealed enclosure that was 0.66 cubic on youtube. They were probably operating at 0.25 cu. or so. I could probably work four of those in theory, pending that I can mount the amp behind the back seat against the back wall. That remains to be seen too. The Elite.5 and 5 channel Ti amps are rather large. I might have to use the SD1300.5 simply because it's physically smaller.

.....And those aren't the legendary Sundown SA subs either, so who knows what the SD's sound like.

dwnrodeo · Post by **dwnrodeo** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:13 pm

Kirghiz wrote:That's a bit more than I'm trying to do lol.

They're beastly subs, I don't doubt that a bit. My question about them is how are they for SQ? I question that about the Sundowns, SSA's, and even the DD's. Every install I see using those involves a bunch of them and a ton of power pushing 160db. I'd be satisfied with 130ish that sounds good. In fact my wife said she'd divorce me if she heard me thumping in the neighborhood like I did my last system, so intense volume isn't the priority lol.

Really I'm just wanting a system built around one of Phoenix Gold 5 channel amps. Thinking strongly about the Elite.5 at this point, but if it doesn't come out soon it's going to be the Ti or SD 5 channel. I can only fit a pair of 10's sealed, or 3 or 4 8's sealed, and they're only going to have 800 to 1200 watts rms, so it isn't going to be thundering no matter what I do.

Leaning toward Phoenix Gold Ti2 10's, RE SE-X 10's, or JL 10w3v3's at this point I think. Morel's cost too much or I'd just get those and be done. I like the look of the Sundowns, but I need someone to tell me a pair or single sounds as good as one of the aforementioned subs. I have to drive three hours to hear anything in a shop, so I'm relying a lot on other's opinions before seeking out a dealer.

My friend is running a single Sundown SA 12 off of a Phoenix Gold SD1300.5 and it sounds good for SQ. It is better sounding than my SSA DCON 12 but not quite up to par with my PG RSDc 12.

Kirghiz · Post by **Kirghiz** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:26 pm

dwnrodeo wrote: My friend is running a single Sundown SA 12 off of a Phoenix Gold SD1300.5 and it sounds good for SQ. It is better sounding than my SSA DCON 12 but not quite up to par with my PG RSDc 12.

Beautiful, thank you for that. Do you know if he's running that Sundown ported? I assume he is.

Kirghiz · Post by **Kirghiz** » Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:24 pm

I was telling a buddy of mine what I am going to do, and he kept arguing with me about how it is going to kill my alternator. I'm going to get the Elite.5 amp, which will be running around 1700 watts rms (1200 on the Class D, 500 on the A/B). The truck has a 145 amp alternator stock, and I am going to upgrade the big 3, along with slap a 5 farad cap on there for good measure. I know the cap doesn't do anything but boost the power to the amp when the bass hits, but it will keep the current draw more steady and even. I figure worst case scenario I'd have to upgrade the starting battery to a dry cell, and add a second dry cell, but I really don't think I would have to do that even.

Surely that amp won't blow a 145 amp alternator will it?

Post by **ttocs** » Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:11 pm

caps do not boost power, nor keep current draw steady. They store voltage, unfortunatly with your amp being current driven you can give it 12v as much as you want but unless you can help supply its current demands the cap is a waste of cash. How much it taxes your alt depends on how loud you play it for how long.

dwnrodeo · Post by **dwnrodeo** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:32 am

Kirghiz wrote:
dwnrodeo wrote: My friend is running a single Sundown SA 12 off of a Phoenix Gold SD1300.5 and it sounds good for SQ. It is better sounding than my SSA DCON 12 but not quite up to par with my PG RSDc 12.
Beautiful, thank you for that. Do you know if he's running that Sundown ported? I assume he is.

Nope, he's running it sealed.

Drock · Post by **Drock** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:31 pm

I believe the cap will help filter a bit of noise though. So there are benefits of using it. Also, if you already have the cap, it can't hurt to use it. I've spent a huge amount of time reading up on caps. There are so many opposing opinions on these things. I personally like the power core 15. Since installing one in my system my voltage has flattened out more . Before the cap was installed my voltage was up and down from 13v up to 15 volts. Now it is rarely dropping below 14v.
All that being said I think ttocs is right if your only using 1 or 2 farad. Probably is not going to help much.
I'm running two 800.1's and two 500.4's powered by 130 amp alt and two deep cycle batteries. And the power core 15.
I have done the big three. At full volume my voltage will only drop to about 13.8v.
So I'm confident that the elite .5 will be just fine in there.

Kirghiz · Post by **Kirghiz** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:06 pm

I have had the truck for about a week now, and the total voltage fluctuates between 12v and about 16v without any aftermarket electronics added yet. Generally cruising on the interstate is when it drops. I am planning to do a big 3 and second battery anyway, but am wondering if I shouldn't add 3 farads or so to balance that up a bit. I think the second battery might take care of that fluctuation on it's own though. Not sure. I am letting the PG/Stinger dealer I am buying the gear from handle this install, and he would know.

My last system about ten years ago was about 1000 watts total, and I ran it for about three months before adding a 2 farad cap for sound quality, and it was a very noticeable difference on the fullness of the low end bass. I'm not opposed to adding a cap for SQ alone, but my installer is a Stinger dealer, and I don't really want to pay $300 for a cap. Might add that later on.