Phoenix Gold Phorum

So I tried googeling this and got no answer so I'll try here, in a high power car stereo system does speaker wire really matter? Im not talking bout using say 16 guage on an amp like the one or anything stupid like that.

I'll put the question as is there gonna b any point to me wireing my 2 elite12d voice coils with sumthin like 8 guage? And if so should I run 8 guage 2 my elite.1 from the sub box or will the 12 guage that's already being used be just fine.

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

I wouldn't be using 12 Ga. for anything off of an Elite.1 I don't think. Honestly, whatever size wire the subs and the amp will accept is what I would use. You've spent all that money on an amp and subs, I wouldn't cheap out on the wire either.

Im running individual runs of 8awg from my elite1 to my 13w7ae just to be safe

there is a reason it has speaker terminals bit enough to fit 8 awg.... Not many amps do.

Good to know, I'm a bit irritated that the shop that installed everything didn't give me the option to use 8 guage, so I'll pull everything out and rewire it tomorrow.

How does a w713 sound on an elite.1 anyway?

thebroke1 wrote:Good to know, I'm a bit irritated that the shop that installed everything didn't give me the option to use 8 guage, so I'll pull everything out and rewire it tomorrow.

I would not be mad at the shop as 95% of the amps out there don't need it or even have the option to use it. On top of that it would have raised the parts price pretty significantly too which is why they probably didn't say anything.

ttocs wrote:

thebroke1 wrote:Good to know, I'm a bit irritated that the shop that installed everything didn't give me the option to use 8 guage, so I'll pull everything out and rewire it tomorrow.

I would not be mad at the shop as 95% of the amps out there don't need it or even have the option to use it. On top of that it would have raised the parts price pretty significantly too which is why they probably didn't say anything.

What's more, the vast majority of people that walk into a car audio shop think they are being ripped off when the shop charges them for wire and miscellaneous install connectors. When I was planning out mine with the installer, he was literally stunned when I told him that I wanted a second battery, 1/0 wire back to the amp, a big 3 upgrade, to use his judgment on the dynamat, and basically not to cheap out on the wiring. Apparently no one asks them to do it right, they all want it cheap.

When every potential customer basically says "Ug, me want bass, me need big speaker and amp!" and bucks when you try and charge them for parts that aren't big speakers and amps, I would imagine it's easy to get jaded and just do cheap work by default, since people that want it done right are the exception.

The w7 is great i think i need a new box for it tho. Only thing i can say is careful with the gain and volume lol or go with more than one W7 because even @ 3ohm you can feel me blocks before you see me.

I went to my local shop and bout 7ft of 8 guage to rewire the subs and amp all the way around, anyway so one of the installers says he has this 12 gauge I think it's called gatorwire that I should try and if I like it better then the 8 gauge then I can just keep the gatorwire and bring back the 8 gauge and give home half of that,he said the wire is made 4 220 applications, so is this stuff worth it

Whatever its called its still 12 gauge. Its worth it using adequate wire and proper installation accessories. It makes you feel better, you sleep better at night and it just might help you avoid annoying problems with your car stereo.

If we're talking something like Elite.1 at 1ohm then thats like 60 amps max total going through the speaker wires 7 gauge is minimum I would use for current like this.

But since the voice coils are 4ohm 12 gauge is adequate from every individual voice coil to box terminal. But no harm in using 8gauge. You need something bigger from box terminal to amp if its just one run. Two separate runs of 8 gauge from box terminals to amp is what I would do if there's two terminals.

Just to put things into perspective I noticed our tumble drier power plug was running hot to the touch. The insulation plastic around the contacts had darkened from the heat. And this thing only draws about 12 amps of current. Admitted it draws that much continuously for hours at a time but still.

That's what I was thinking, so how do u parallel the elite 12ds with 8 gauge ? I don't c the room 2 fit 2 runs of wire out of a set of terminals 2 the box terminals? The wiring for the box 2 the amp is already done with the biggest wire I could shove in, I've just never head of this gatorwire stuff and was wondering y it says it can handle 600 volts

Hard to say without seeing the terminals. If the terminals have screws at the back, you can fit lugs on the wires and stack several lugs under one nut.

Volts are irrelevant in car audio really. Were talking amperes here.

thebroke1 wrote:I've just never head of this gatorwire stuff and was wondering y it says it can handle 600 volts

0.3 amperes can stop your heart and kill you.

A tazer is 20,000 volts with almost zero current attached. It'll shock the hell out of you and leave you incapacitated, but you'll recover because there is no current.

A 60 watt light bulb on the other hand is 120 volts and pulls 0.5 amperes. If you mess around with it stupidly, it'll kill you. For that matter, your standard electrical socket at your house is 120 volt and 15 amps. That is why you don't see anything for home use that is rated over 1800 watts.

Forget voltage. The only time voltage comes into play, is when you are multiplying it against your amperes to determine wattage.

Your Elite.1 is making 3200 watts on a 14 volt system at 85% efficiency. At rms power it is pulling roughly 262 amperes. 262 amperes is a s*it ton of current that you absolutely have to respect and not mess around with. If an electrician used to small of wire to wire a house he would go to jail, and he isn't dealing with 1/10th the current that most car amps use.

Well I trimmed down sum 4 gauge 2 fit so I think that will suffice, I did use the 12 gauge to wire the sub in parallel since I couldn't get anything else 2 fit, thx for all the input guys

Kirghiz wrote:

thebroke1 wrote:I've just never head of this gatorwire stuff and was wondering y it says it can handle 600 volts

If an electrician used to small of wire to wire a house he would go to jail, and he isn't dealing with 1/10th the current that most car amps use.

Thing is, 120v has a nasty habit of grabbing you and not letting go. THAT is why it's so dangerous.

you guys are comparing AC signals to DC and it doesn't get anymore apples/oranges in comparison. The amount of current an amp draws at its power terminals is completely different from what it has at its signa, which is what this post was started for, signal. If you shock yourself off of either the 12v power intput to the amp, or the ac signal out of it, you have done something very very wrong. If you die from it then I think you will be the first person to die from car audio electricution that I know of.....

Ac signals do not requre as much current as a DC current to get you the higher the freq is but again there I am talking wall-voltage/current not what comes out of your amp.

While AC and DC current is different, the amount of current that wire can handle is pretty much the same for both. The point of that was to illustrate that there is a lot more current passing through the wires of a car audio application than pretty much anything else you'll encounter. That is why you don't skimp on wire. Using too small of wire isn't so much an electrocution risk as a fire risk.

Isnt 12 amps of 220 volt a lot compared to what any car amp could put out besides sumthink like the one or the like

For instance find the thread where they clamped an elite.1 on here it shows amps and volts on the findings and those where maybe 12 amps and like 63 volts.

Volts x amperes = watts
watts / volts = amperes
watts / amperes = volts

The input voltage going into the amp will almost always be between 12 and 15 volts. They can however make the output voltage whatever they want it to be by using a transformer in the amp.

this is true when dealing with dc voltage but for ac you will need to find the RMS voltage in ac to get an average voltage rating. This is not the same RMS when talking amplifier power.

So say the amp is pulling everything it's got so 4109/368=11.14 volts right?

And of course we use the break down for watts to c what the actual say rms is of an amp by addin efficiency, which I figured is about 77% @ 1 ohm. So 14.4 x .775 x 368=4106.88 which is pretty close, so I guess maybe I'm lost somewhere @ what the problem is

Wire provides resistance, and resistance plus current creates heat. The smaller the wire, the more resistance from the wire. Run too small of wire for the amount of current is running through it and the wire heats up. In extreme cases the insulation or the wire itself can melt, causing a fire hazard. Short of that, resistance also causes a drop in voltage, so using too small of wire can cause the amp or speakers to receive less current/power than it would with a proper wire. Even a loss of 0.5 volts is a 8% drop in power on a 12.5 volt system. On a 4000 watt amp, 8% is 320 watts. Current is the big deal in car audio, but you still need to maintain a high voltage to make power.

Worse case scenario is a fire hazard. Best case scenario you see a drop in performance from using wire that's too small.