Phoenix Gold Phorum

I guess i never really clairified when i posted this:

A. I currently have the Xtant 603x - considering the install of it with my MBQuarts & 1 nice 8" sub.
B. Considering the MS2125 & MS275 instead of the 603x - this means selling a few current items to fund the MS stuff AND recapping.

Which of the 2 setups would be the better route? I know their are diehard PG fans AND Xtant fans alike ... but my situation is this...........
Keep in mind, SQ is kinda up there on my priority list BUT a nice little pocket of SPL wouldn't hurt!!!

Thanks again y'all ... !!!!

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Ok y'all.
I'm brand spankin' new to PG stuff BUT not to car audio. Been messin around with it since the 80s ...

I can't shake em from my memory - but hearing PG-MS stuff early 90s - WOW was all I had to say. To the SQ and then the cost.

Now later in life (40+) SQ is more where I'm headed ... altho I can't help but "crank-it-up" along my travels!!

Considering an old school Xtant 603x I snagged a few years back OR an MS125 & MS275 combo I'm thinking to pick up.

Sundown sa8v2 OR e8v3 -sub
MB quart QM218.61Q - components
Audiocontrol three.1 - equalization

These are to be massaged into my 2101 Tundra doublecab (not crewmax) ... stock HU and power system.

I'm on the fence regarding the amp situation not knowing ANYTHING about PG (other than my memory of wow-ness)........

I'd really appreciate ANY and ALL input, comments, questions, tips, leads, warnings & whatever!!

both extant/pg are great lines and would do you well. I always loved the extant style and if we had a local place that sold them back when I might be as addicted to them as I am pg products. My only complaint with extant though is the possibility of messing it up by accidently getting wire-strippings on the board. It was a common problem and if your not carefull can still happen today.

ttocs wrote:My only complaint with extant though is the possibility of messing it up by accidently getting wire-strippings on the board. It was a common problem and if your not carefull can still happen today.

This. I never was a big fan of Xtant because of the way they made the case for those amps. I didn't really like the look of them with the square openings, and like ttocs said, stuff can fall down inside of them. Aside from that they were great amps.

Have you heard the Sundown subs you are considering going with? You said you are going for SQ on your build, and I have heard great things about Sundown's subs, but none of the great things I have heard were necessarily SQ related.

pg i nice but after doing caps finding a ok looking unit ect. your better off buying the new pg amps or audison.

sundown is loud not really a sq sub IMO
there are a fair amount of company that make nice driver and not all of them are huge$$ i have used focal super nice not loud.

kg1961 wrote: sundown is loud not really a sq sub IMO

Pretty much where I lean on Sundown also. Plus, the SA-8 pretty much has to be ported. Believe it or not, the Phoenix Gold Ti2 10" sub is a great sounding sub, gets loud, and will fit into 0.6 Cu. sealed for the SQ box, where you'd be looking about about 1.25 cu total to port an SA-8. Sundown doesn't like to tell you this, but the xmax on the SA-8 is virtually the same as the Ti2 10", and the sensitivity on the Phoenix Gold sub is MUCH better. They can also be had for about the same money. Sundown does have some damn good marketing though.

I like Xtant.

With that said, the 603x and the 604x are kind of junk. This is based on the ones I have repaired, which just failed again, sometimes more than once.

My best guess is with so many options on these amps, they have countless jumpers all over them, and lots of controls. Any corrosion in any of these parts and things start to misbehave. Also, it is possible their protection circuits don't work as they should, which may lead to some failures.

When they are working, they sound excellent. I also like the clean look of the polished stainless cases. But, they just don't have the reliability.

Haven't pulled the trigger on the SA8 or e8 ... suggest me something. Realestate is super tight seei g how I'm gonna try to NOT go under the rear seating!! ....... hole in the floor, glas & mdf.

I know I'm asking LOTS from an 8" sub - but technology has come a very long way since the 80's & 90's. I've been out of the loop for a while and shopping. Seems an 8 will suffice. Just needing one that requires small sq ft, has SQ and quantity of sound..........yup asking a LOT!!!

Thanks y'all.

How tight is super tight? I just about have a PhD in what subs will and won't fit under the rear seat of a truck. I spent months figuring out what I can do under the seat of my Silverado Crew Cab. The big problem you have isn't airspace, it's depth. Anything that has more than 6" of depth is out, and that includes the SA-8. Sundown's SD-8 is a good choice, as well as Alpine's Type R 8's. They are under 5". Even in the most cramped under seat install you can very easily get a pair of either of those 8's sealed under there. The JL 10w3v3 should fit believe it or not, and I even got one of the aforementioned Phoenix Gold Ti2 10" ported under mine without moving the seat. There are a few tens that will work sealed. I literally spent hundreds of hours searching for subs that have a shallow mounting depth that don't suck.

What you need to do is measure the height from the floor to the bottom of the seat and see what exactly you've got. While you're at it, you might as well measure back to front, as well the transmission hump and figure out your airspace. Installing a quality system in a truck is a hell of a challenge.

When I say "tight" ...... uh, I mean by using NONE of the floor space!! Yup - said it!! NONE......well, maybe the jack area under the 1/3 section. I have a challenge ahead of me to say the least.

Which is how big? Have you thought about a center console enclosure?

oh crap the jumpers, forgot how much fun they were. STill to this day the only amp that I HAD to read the manual to install.....

The complexity of the 603x does seem a bit daunting ... compared to the simplicity of the MS line.

NOW another question for ya - will the AudioControl three.1 EQ be a nice enough unit for the quality of the PGMS amps?
Being that it IS a 13v line driver can't hurt.



BTW, 8" sub in the console .................................... "now THAT'S thinkin' with yer dip-stick Jimmy!!"

The more I think about the Sundown sa8 ... it's kinda funny.
It's like a muscle car motor dropped into a Civic. It works, it's not real pretty, but it will get you from one place to another!!

SCHEEEEZE u PG peeps. Really got me thinking now.
I was on the fence with the MS stuff vs the 603x ............... gotta move the Xtant i guess. (hmm, thanks)

NOW I'm all the way back to the drawing board.
~ 8" sub recccommmmendations (sq and a wee bit of spl) ???


THANK YOU - THANK YOU - THANK YOU

People put 8" subs in the consoles all the time, but anyway......

You need the smallest sub you can find, so one of these two is your best bet imo.

http://www.sundownaudio.com/index.php/p ... egory_id=2
http://www.woofersetc.com/p-9933-swr-84 ... oofer.aspx

Both are around 4.5 inches deep with a solid back plate, so you don't need any vent space behind the magnet and can put them right against the back of the enclosure, and both will work in about 0.3 sealed. Between the two, the Sundown gets louder, but the Alpine has been touted as the best sounding 8" under $200. A pair of either will easily take the full power of the MS-2125 bridged at 2 ohm too. Finding 8's that can take over 200 watts that are shallow depth is a struggle in it's own right. Those are really about the only ones. The Digital Designs 2508 will take the power, and is under 6" deep, but requires a ported box, so it's out.

AudioControl makes great products. The three.1 is no exception.

But, MS amps can only take about 3V of input, so 13V is WAY more than they need. So, you can either run the three.1 much lower than it can go, or you can modify the preamp section of the MS amps to take 13V of input, or better yet, put a nice crossover in the rear, and use the crossover to cut the 13V down to 3V from something like a four.1 instead (you will still have excellent signal to noise on the longest RCA run from the head unit to the rear of the vehicle).

put a 10" in my trucks consol. Sound great too with the bass comming from the center of the car firing backwards

Wa-frikin-hoo!!!
I've figured out a nice configuration of some space UNDER the large portion of the back seat area. (Far back superTIGHT against the back wall and across the length of the larger 2/3 seat.) Looks to be .73 cf before the 8" sub AND before port disp and/or bracing...now i need to figure IF i want ported for the lows OR sealed.

Considering greatly - x1 Sundown e8v3 dual 4ohm with a mono signal running thru the MS2125 on both channels running 4ohm each rather than bridged.
NEVER having owned OR played with any PG amps what-so-ever ... i'm totally relying on you guys here on the PP to hold my hand thru this!!! (please)

I'm just about ready to make that decision to go with the "solid & simple" PGMS amps rather than the "delicate & confusing" Xtant 603x.

The 2 amps I'm considering will be purchased used and I've not yet discussed the "caps leaking" issue with previous owner (original owner that is) - that might play into my favor in dollar negotiations!!

Suggestions from you guys are VERY WELCOME and highly needed on these issues:
- Both amps applications, more than enuff? should i look for less/more power for the sub and MBQ speakers?
- Horizontal vs vertical on back wall of my Tundra (duh, fins running up & down make sense to me for heat disp)
- Bridged vs using mono to both L&R for the dual 4ohm sub (both 4ohm on each ... less struggle for the amp?)
- Sending a 3v signal was mentioned ...to the amps from my three.1 EQ... - how do i achieve this??
- Should the caps really be replaced no matter what - on the MS2125 at least...How about the MS275??
- Box recommenation (ported for lows vs sealed for extreme accuracy)

I can't thank y'all enuff for the ALREADY POSTED information, suggestions and opinions...it's priceless.
REALLY - REALLY looking forward to reading more!!

I'd rather be educated going into this project rather than shaking my head in frustration.

Thank you all,
Damion

If you don't replace the caps on MS amps, they WILL catch fire. It is not a matter of if, but when.

Ewwwwwwwwww - FIAH!!!
Naught a guud thing!!!


I'll definately bring up the caps during "negotiation$".... thank you Eric D.

Eric D wrote:If you don't replace the caps on MS amps, they WILL catch fire. It is not a matter of if, but when.

Curious since I've never delved into running vintage gear......is that an issue on pretty much all older amps, or just the Phoenix Golds?

for the op......that ms2125 will make 510 watts rms bridged at 4 ohm. i'd very seriously consider a pair of dual 4 ohm sundown sd-8's instead of the e8's. the pair will fit sealed in your 0.73 of space just fine, and you should see better output from those.

I considered the sa8 ... depth is the issue this go-round. Thus the e8 OR possibly an sd8 if depth is at 4.75" or 5" ...
The enclosure is not exactly under the sitting part of the seat. Tis gonna be jammmed way back where the upper and lower join and fold. I may even have to mod the mount points and rais the entire seating section .5" - .75".

Hmm - a mod thread for my fellow Tundra forum friends!!

The E-8 has a 5 1/8" depth
SD-2 8 has a 4 3/4" depth

Plus, the SD series is an all around better speaker than the E series.

Must have been the sd-2 I was reading about when I was jazzed about the slim depth...thanks for pointing that out.

I just can't wait to get started ... lots on my work schedule the next coue months tho ... grrr!!

BTW, I just joined the PPhorum and 5 days too late, stumbled across the PG GOLD MINE post - dang-crap-pooh-fart-dingit!!!!! I would've loved to snag some of those goods!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn9DMH6xzRU

keep in mind though that the sundowns aren't considered sq subs.

Well then ... hmmm.

I've only played with one 8" sub in my days - 1991 +/- a year ... Orion DVC 8.
Can't remember much about that'n but it finally burnt......

Recommend me a nice beefy 8" for SQ and will put out a nice amount of ummmf with a PG MS2125.
[Somethin to run on 300-500 RMS]

Been readin up - Alpine's R8 matches or beats the Sundown on SQ and still puts out!!
Sa8 reviewssay it bangs but that's about it. Not to mention it requires 800-1500 to perform.

So - on I read and more I ask of y'all to chime in.
Thanks