Phoenix Gold Phorum

Ok looking for any and all suggestions for my sons S10 Blazer build. Its been a minute since ive done this sort of thing and things have changed a little since my last big install in 1995,lol.
I have finally acquired all the amps: 1-QX2100,1-QX2180,2-QX2350's,2-QX4075's,2-QX4150's and possibly the R500.1
So far I have 20 ft of 1/0 silver monster cable,
13 ft 1/0 black monster cable
10 ft 2awg red monster cable
10 ft 2awg black monster cable
5 ft 8awg black monster cable
7 ft 1/0 streetwires silver cable.
1 1-1/0 in ground foot.
1 Kicker 2-1/0 in ground foot.
2 Monster cable 1/0 inline fuse holders with 200amp and 300amp fuses.
1 Monster cable 3-1/0 in 4 8awg out fuse block
1 Monster cable 3-1/0 in 3 8awg out fuse block
4 Monster cable 1/0 adaptors
4 Monster cable 1/0 ring terminals
Knu koncepts Battery terminals
1 set 746 4x6 Boston Acoustic plates.For dash.
2 sets PRO60SE Boston Acoustics components.
1 Mechman 250 amp SI alternator
2 8" Dayton Reference series midbass.
Making fiberglass pods for kicks and rear quarters.So can go any reasonable size.
Subs are open for discussion. Ive listened to some new stuff and just dont know which way to go. They need to be cheap,efficient and not outrageous power handling.

The theme/goal for this install is big old school style with old electronics and new speakers.

I plan to run the plates and components up front.
In rear quarters directly behind front seats.I was thinking a stack of 8 or 10" midbass,or maybe Dayton reference 7".And a component set 5 1/4 or 6 1/2".
For subs I would like at the least 4 10's at the most 4 12s or 415s.Although 8 10s and 1or2 12s together is not out of question.
My son likes newer rock.I like it all. Rock,metal, classical,country,hiphop and old school rap.My thoughts were to build an entire system for rock style bass.I want to feel and here the stick hit the drum, if you know what I mean.Then on top of that I would like a defeatable subbass setup in there as well.So that when we really want to shake the windows it can be turned on,but not needed at all times.
I figure this will be easy with all the bass knobs and such out there these days.

Ive already started with sound deadening. Ive tore this truck down and rebuilt everything from the rearend to engine to all electronics.Everything system has been sorted.Along the way Ive kept rattles and resonation in mind.Such as when I installed fuel pump I covered entire top of fuel tank and bottom of rear floor area with dynamat as well as tank straps.If it sounded hollow or vibrated when I tapped on it.It got secured and deadened all along the process of rebuilding this truck.
I started with 250 sqft of deadening material.I have enough to cover 100% of the unexposed interior of truck.Including inside door skins and behind door panels.All interior plastic trim will receive dynamat on back side as well.
If this seems a bit extreme.I had an 86 just like this in 95 with 4-15" Vega XLD's and it rattled everything there was,lol.

Power questions.
How do I power this mess? What exactly do I need? All the way from batteries/alternators to circuit breakers/inline fuses,isolators,fuse blocks,distros.
What do I need under the hood? How should it be wired? ie alts.,circuit breaker,isolator,batteries.
What size and how many batteries do I need? It has a 1000cca Duralast Gold battery in front now.I just couldnt pass up the fact that it had 'gold'on it,lol. But it can stay or go.I got 9 vehicles so its not like its gonna be a loss.
The Blazer is a base Tahoe version. No power anything.No rear defrost,no power windows/locks. All factory alt. has to power is ECM,lights and heater AC. Maybe 65amps max.
I dont think its worth throwing money away on capacitors. Or am i wrong?
Keep in mind Im looking for your ideal setup;ie What would you do if it was yours?

Electronics questions.
Back in the day,I never thought anything about voltage output.
These amps have input sensitivity of 100millivolts to 2 volts.
The Kenwood HU's I use have a 4 volt output.I know this is not a constant output.With 6 rca outs,front rear sub.
Eq's,crossovers,line drivers and bass enhancements are open for suggestion.Along with how their voltage outputs are going to work for or against me.
I would like to source a Sony XEC1000 or Kenwood KEC 301 OR 600. But seeing as they go for 200+ on the Bay. They maybe out of my range.
I plan on going all actively crossed.
Any opinions on a Mc Laren MLX1000. It can be found on the bay.I know its not old school,but seems to have the features.
If the processors I use have 4+ volts out,How's that affect the input sensivity of these amps?

Wiring questions.
How much is really required for RCA's?
I had no idea there was so much to choose from.And how much they can cost nowadays.
I would like to go with Phoenix Gold or Monster Cable,but it's hard to find all the cables in the lengths i'll need that all match.
Any suggestions?
I plan on using the 1/0 as far back as I can and stepping down to 4 and 8awg at the amps as short as possible.Trying to keep current/voltage loss to a mininum so I can squeeze as much out of these lil amps as possible.
I plan to use 12awg Monster Cable speaker wire throughout for same reason. And single runs of 8awg for subs and midbass.
The idea here is overkill in case we decide to swap out/go bigger later.
I plan to run power wire down pass. side,rcas down trans tunnel and speaker wire up drivers side. I assume this is still the accepted norm.

Speaker questions.
How important is speaker sensivity throughout the system?
Do they need to all be as close as possible or what?
Woofer suggestions? 2-10s,4-10s,4-8s?Looking for tight clear punchy bass.
Subwoofer sugesstions?1-12,2-12s,1 thru 4 15s?Looking for deep,deep low range bass that can blend in with woofers only when needed.
Ive typically ran ported boxes. What ive read suggests sealed box for best sq. Can I get the woofers to hit low enough with out the subwoofers turned on?
This being said,should I go with ported or sealed subwoofer box?
What would be good frequencies to cross all this over @? I was thinking maybe 500-1000 to 120-150 on midbass.120-150 to 50-60 on woofers and 50-60 to 15-20 on subs.
As much as I would like to go Phoenix gold all the way. It has been tough sourcing what I have so far. There is a Phoenix distributor in area,but he is hour and a half away. I just dont know what kind of prices are on the new Phoenix gear and if I can afford it. I will say that I was very impressed with the output of the R500.1 I picked up. I dont know anything more about the new R series stuff except that it seems affordable.

If youve stuck with me this far. THANK YOU! I know its a lil long winded but I have been studying this stuff and researching for a few months now and this is the place I feel I can get honest reliable discussion and answers.

Can someone at least give me some tips on the power supply. That'll be my next step. Should I go with a circuit breaker or fuse at main battery? I assume Itll go battery then fuse or breaker then isolator then what? Do I put a fuse right after isolator going to the back of truck or do I put a fuse at rear close to rear batteries. Do I need an isolator rated close to alt. output or should i go a lil bigger? Say like 240-260amps? Or is it preferred to just dedicate a second alt. strictly to the system?

I guess it depends on how over the top you want to be. You're looking at running five amps, and even though they total 150 amps in fuses, you want headroom on the electrical system to maybe add a more powerful sub amp later. If it was me, which is what you asked for, I tend to think I would just dedicate a second alternator, and in so doing, basically give the audio system it's own electrical system. Especially if you are going to stick with the old school amps, and the big sub amp you add later is not a class D. You are looking at buying an alternator any way that you go. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me to upgrade the OEM alternator and dedicate 70+ amps from the upgraded alternator to the OEM system, when you can run a dual alternator set up, keep the OEM alt on the OEM system, and dedicate 100% of the amperage from the alternator you paid A LOT of money for, to the audio system.

That said, no more current than those particular amps are going to pull, I don't think you necessarily need to do that. You can probably replace the OEM alternator with a 220, 240, or 260 amp alternator and be just fine. I just happen to like the idea of dual alts and isolating the audio electrical system from the vehicle's electrical system for several reasons, and is what I would do in mine.

your original post was a bit of an overload, I wasn't sure which questions to answer.

As for fuses/breakers that is really a personal preference as they both do the job. First rule is to fuse the with in 12" of the battery. Myself and a lot of people also like to fuse the power wire by the alt to prevent burning up the voltage regulator in the alt if that wire should short out. You can get 200A out of a single alt with out too much trouble, I run a 200A, isolator and two kinetic batteries.

Thanks ttocs,I kinda figured after reviewing posts.It was a bit much.I just wanted to get everything up top so it would be easy to reference what i have and my goals without scrolling through pages looking for questions and info. I forgot most people wont read long ass posts,lol.
I was kinda thinking circuit breaker,at least at main battery. And a solenoid I know I said isolator but thats what I meant.
I just dont know how to figure what size breaker and solenoid.
How many amps do your amplifiers pull?
Id rather run 1 200 or 240 amp alt.And at least a main and secondary battery.
Should I ditch the duralast battery and get matching batts or just add whatever i need in back?

Kirghiz wrote:I guess it depends on how over the top you want to be. You're looking at running five amps, and even though they total 150 amps in fuses, you want headroom on the electrical system to maybe add a more powerful sub amp later. If it was me, which is what you asked for, I tend to think I would just dedicate a second alternator, and in so doing, basically give the audio system it's own electrical system. Especially if you are going to stick with the old school amps, and the big sub amp you add later is not a class D. You are looking at buying an alternator any way that you go. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me to upgrade the OEM alternator and dedicate 70+ amps from the upgraded alternator to the OEM system, when you can run a dual alternator set up, keep the OEM alt on the OEM system, and dedicate 100% of the amperage from the alternator you paid A LOT of money for, to the audio system.

That said, no more current than those particular amps are going to pull, I don't think you necessarily need to do that. You can probably replace the OEM alternator with a 220, 240, or 260 amp alternator and be just fine. I just happen to like the idea of dual alts and isolating the audio electrical system from the vehicle's electrical system for several reasons, and is what I would do in mine.

Sorry for some reason It just showed your post. Thanks thats exactly what Im looking for. How people would do t if it were there set up.
I was thinking 2 alts. for same reason,isolation.
Im trying to build a great foundation in this truck.
This will only be the first system,to get my kinks worked out.
LONG term goal is eventually swapping it all out to new Phoenix gear,but thatll take a lot more time and money.
I was wondering whether it would be worth the investment to go ahead and get the 300amp Powermaster XS SPL alt. now for second alt.
It has a lot features that make it adjustable for different applications along the way.
What do you think?
Also in a split system,What battery/ies would you run for system?Theres way too many choices in these new sealed batts for me to wrap my head around,thanks!

zztunnell wrote:Thanks ttocs,I kinda figured after reviewing posts.It was a bit much.I just wanted to get everything up top so it would be easy to reference what i have and my goals without scrolling through pages looking for questions and info. I forgot most people wont read long ass posts,lol.
I was kinda thinking circuit breaker,at least at main battery. And a solenoid I know I said isolator but thats what I meant.
I just dont know how to figure what size breaker and solenoid.
How many amps do your amplifiers pull?
Id rather run 1 200 or 240 amp alt.And at least a main and secondary battery.
Should I ditch the duralast battery and get matching batts or just add whatever i need in back?

The easiest way to figure out what kind of current your amps are capable of pulling is to look at the fuse ratins on the amp, and then add them up.

No problem running one alt as long as you can find a HO alt that will fit the car. When you add a 2nd battery it is a good idea to get replace them at the same time. Old batteries will charge/discharge differently then new ones so putting a bad one, next to a new one can hurt the new one.

zztunnell wrote: I was wondering whether it would be worth the investment to go ahead and get the 300amp Powermaster XS SPL alt. nowfor second alt.

Well, I am having an Elite.4 and Elite.1 installed next week, which is 600+ watts rms of class A/B power and 2400+ watts rms of class D power, and I am going with a dual alt set up with a 300 amp alternator on the two amplifiers. If you think you might get to a point that you'd run that kind of power, the 300 amp alternator might be a good idea, but if not, you can probably get by with less, like say a 220 or 240. That said, once you are paying for a 220 amp, bumping up to 300 amps is only another $100-$150, so why not?

Kirghiz wrote:

zztunnell wrote: I was wondering whether it would be worth the investment to go ahead and get the 300amp Powermaster XS SPL alt. nowfor second alt.

Well, I am having an Elite.4 and Elite.1 installed next week, which is 600+ watts rms of class A/B power and 2400+ watts rms of class D power, and I am going with a dual alt set up with a 300 amp alternator on the two amplifiers. If you think you might get to a point that you'd run that kind of power, the 300 amp alternator might be a good idea, but if not, you can probably get by with less, like say a 220 or 240. That said, once you are paying for a 220 amp, bumping up to 300 amps is only another $100-$150, so why not?

That's what I was thinking after looking at prices. That way I'd be covered for pretty much anything. The Powermaster would also let me turn the charging volts up and down as I upgrade as well as having the remote sensing.

zztunnell wrote:The Powermaster would also let me turn the charging volts up and down as I upgrade as well as having the remote sensing.

That is another small advantage of the dual alternator set up. Since only amplifiers would be on that alternator, and not vehicle equipment, you can actually set the voltage regulator up higher than you can when the alternator is running everything. Most vehicle electronics don't like to see much over 15 volts, and that is why 14.5 volts is the norm, but some of the new amps can operate over 16 volts, and you can safely set it for 15.5 V or so, higher if you're brave. In the grand scheme of things, it'll only make you have about 7% or 8% more power over 14.5 volts, so it isn't a huge deal, but every little bit helps.

more voltage only helps if you are running unregulated power supplies if I am not mistaken.

ttocs wrote:more voltage only helps if you are running unregulated power supplies if I am not mistaken.

Yeah, there's that. Fwiw all of the new Phoenix Gold lines of amps have unregulated power supplies. Not sure about the QX series though.

Kirghiz wrote:

ttocs wrote:more voltage only helps if you are running unregulated power supplies if I am not mistaken.

Yeah, there's that. Fwiw all of the new Phoenix Gold lines of amps have unregulated power supplies. Not sure about the QX series though.

Not absolutely sure,but I don't think the Qx's are unregulated. The new R500.1 I have is though.
Gonna try to make the trek this weekend to Sound Decision up in Johnson City to check out the new Phoenix gear and get some prices.
Got a gut feeling the Elite's are gonna be in the upper stratosphere of my price range.
I hope they got some of R subs to listen to.Thinking might try get 2 or 4 10's for my sealed portion of the sub setup. Then maybe the sub from the guy in nashville for the ported 'add on' sub.
At 200 wrms each,do you think a QX2350 with 350watt bridged would be enough on 4 of the R1's?
I just found out the dangers of underpowering a sub a couple weeks ago. Now I'm a lil gunshy about it.

the elites are expensive, but they take away that "What if?" factor that so many of us suffer from down the road. I had to make some changes to my plans to fit them in and put out some cash for them but once in hand I have no looked back. They are starting to pop up here/there now basically unused for less the retail, keep your eyes open and they can be had now.

Fingers crossed that they have some phoenix gear on display that I listen to. From what everyone on here says I think Ill be impressed.

Sound Decision is only open Monday thru Friday 9-5, so you'd probably want to call ahead. Ask for Chris or Benny.

I'm actually there as I type this, and I just mentioned what you're doing, and they recommend the Ti21300 for the four Type R 10's.

Well that sucks,lol.At least it wont be a wasted trip.Ill have to take off work some day soon and head up there. Do they have any Phoenix gear hooked up on display to listen to?
Didnt realize had so many people in my area on here.
You wouldnt happen to know what line wire they carry would you? Its like Stinger central around here.

They have one of last year's Ti1600.5's on their sound wall, along with a handful of R series amps, and other brands. They haven't gotten many of the new Ti2 amps in yet, and don't have any hooked up. They don't stock the Elites, mainly because I am pretty sure I'm the only person that's ever asked for them lol. They obviously can get them though, and if they haven't already sold it, they'll have a used Elite.5 in stock next week.

They use Stinger wire and accessories. Where Stinger owns Phoenix Gold now, you'll be hard pressed to find a PG dealer that doesn't.

Hate to be a pest.Did you see any LPL's or RMD's? Or component sets?
Is it the Ti1600.5 on web site with the 3 leds on top without the see through top?

zztunnell wrote:Hate to be a pest.Did you see any LPL's or RMD's? Or component sets?
Is it the Ti1600.5 on web site with the 3 leds on top without the see through top?

Yes, yes, yes. They've got, or can get quickly whatever you want. The new Ti2 amps that look like tiny Elites aren't out yet, and if they are, they JUST came out.

pm me if you need an lpl44 or two I have some extras now after switching to the elite amps.

So I was outbid on the Kenwood 301 xover. Any one got a suggestion on a good 4-5 channel crossover for a decent price? I found a Mc Laren MLX1000 on the bay that might work just dont know anything about that company.

zztunnell wrote:So I was outbid on the Kenwood 301 xover. Any one got a suggestion on a good 4-5 channel crossover for a decent price? I found a Mc Laren MLX1000 on the bay that might work just dont know anything about that company.

Never used any of their stuff, but I think they make decent gear. For the prices I have seen floating around on that piece, you can certainly do worse.

http://www.mclarenaudio.com/

Holy looong post, GL with the install...I have nothing to offer here. lol just saying

never head the macleren gear nor really heard anything good/bad to report about them. 5 - channel cross over, what are you wanting out of it as far as front/rear high pass/low pass/band pass?