Hi everybody!
I’m new PG and would like to get some input from some followers here to help get me in the right direction for a long-awaited system rebuild. I installed in the early 90’s and have been around car and home audio a lot since then. I was never exposed to PG in my area and I had not even considered PG until I recently found the new PG stuff at my old shop that I still have a great relationship with. I’ve decided to go with PG for my amp, subs, and speakers for my new system. I am excited and a little hesitant to get all PG gear since haven’t used or heard it before. I’ve owned a lot of great tech in the 90’s including MB Quart and Pioneer speakers, Soundstream, PPI, Kicker, and Rockford amps, Alpine and Pioneer head units, JL, Kicker, and Alpine subs.
I will be building my system around the new PG Ti21600.5 amp as soon as it is available here. I chose this amp for its power, efficiency and small footprint. I’ve always liked a one amp solution for my fairly simple systems. I currently run a JL 450/4 on a pair of Pioneer REV 6x8’s in the front doors and a 10” JL center console stealthbox in my 98 F150 Supercab. Head unit is a Pioneer Premier DEH-P860mp. Electrical consists of an Optima yellow top, 4ga wiring, Rockford 1uf digital cap, and stock Ford alt. I will be upgrading to 0ga wiring for the new build. I listen to mp3 audio from my android phone. Mostly Rock, Rap, Dubstep, and Breakbeat mixes currently get play. I am very happy with the sound from my current system. Just looking for more volume all around. My plan is to install new front and rear speakers and add 2 subs under the rear seats. I’m really trying to stay with a single amp for space reasons and keep everything as factory as possible.
I will be keeping my center console JL 10” stealthbox and DEH-P860mp headunit in the new setup retaining the crossover and eq control from my deck and a little extra bass from the sub. I have a bit of flexibility for speakers with the PG Ti21600.5 being quite powerful. My thoughts are to run all 4 door speakers off the front 2 channels @ 2ohm, the center console 10” sub off the rear 2 channels @ 2 ohm (using a new sub), and run the 2 rear subs using the mono channel of the amp. Though, I am not sure if the PG amp will be able to run a sub well on the rear channels as there is currently little info available on it. It would be nice to run 3 PG R10 subs off the sub channel of the Ti21600.5 and run the door speakers stereo but I would run into impedance issues running an odd number of subs and wouldn’t take full advantage of the Ti21600.5 sub output since it is rated for max output @ 2ohm….. Unless it will handle a 1.66ohm load daily.
I am trying to decide between matching PG 6x9’s (Ti or Point Source) in all 4 doors or PG components all around so I can run them in parallel off the front channels of the amp. The 6x9’s are only rated for 90w rms while the components are 125w and 150w for the Ti265’s and Elite.65’s.
Rear subs are going to be either PG R10’s or Ti210’s. I am going to try for the Ti 10’s if space allows. My options are to have two downfiring 10’s in a sealed under seat box. OR… remove the rear 60/40 bench seat and replace it with a ported box with forward facing subs.
I also am looking into replacing the sub in the center console stealthbox with a PG R10 for better power handling if I can stuff it in there . I don’t think a Ti sub will fit.
What I am really wanting to know is this:
How do the PG 6x9’s comparae to the Pioneer REVs in sound quality, highs and midbass? I am happy with the sound quality from the REVs.
Will the PG 6x9’s be ok getting 100-125w from the amp at either 2 or 4ohm since they are rated only 90w rms? Also, thoughts on sound quality running them at 2 ohms on a class D amp?
Will Ti or R series subs will be better matched for the PG amp when running either 2 or 3 subs?
Do the Ti and R series subs lean toward sealed or vented enclosures?
Will the Ti21600.5 run ok with a sub-2ohm load on the sub channel?
I welcome and look forward to all thoughts, opinions, and recommendations on the setup.
New to PG... need help with new all PG build!
Re: New to PG... need help with new all PG build!
I have a Silverado Crew Cab and understand your problems. I had a single Ti2 10" ported in about 1.75cu. Running off an Elite.5 that was firing up. I can post a picture of it if you're looking for box ideas. It was loud as hell in the cab of the truck, but I'm a bass head and upgraded to four tens sealed in just under 2.5cu off an Elite1. I was asking a single sub to do too much. There is a thread in the installs section here. The single 10" ported would have easily been as loud as a pair sealed, which is why I went with four sealed. To make the single 10" fire up without raising the seat they had to take the rubber boot off the magnet, and that shaved off about a quarter inch from the depth. The rubber boot is just there for looks.
You might consider raising the seat an inch to inch and a half instead of removing the 60 side of your seat entirely. You can pick up a lot of enclosure space that way, and in my truck it was the difference in getting 10's to fire forward. Using that physically tiny amp compared to my Elites, you might can get a pair of sealed 12's to fire up or down.
Either way, you aren't going to need that stealthbox in the console if you get something nice under your seat and get some good power to it. You might be able to sell it and use the money on something else, like say an Elite5 instead of the Ti2 5 Channel, or perhaps better mids.
You might consider raising the seat an inch to inch and a half instead of removing the 60 side of your seat entirely. You can pick up a lot of enclosure space that way, and in my truck it was the difference in getting 10's to fire forward. Using that physically tiny amp compared to my Elites, you might can get a pair of sealed 12's to fire up or down.
Either way, you aren't going to need that stealthbox in the console if you get something nice under your seat and get some good power to it. You might be able to sell it and use the money on something else, like say an Elite5 instead of the Ti2 5 Channel, or perhaps better mids.
Last edited by Kirghiz on Fri May 10, 2013 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Being loud without good sound quality is pointless, but having good sound quality without being loud is also pointless.
Re: New to PG... need help with new all PG build!
Fwiw here is what my first box looked like....
Also, I'll say this too. I have two sets of Elite.65's, one in the front doors and one in the back doors. I know you didn't ask about those, but those two sets running off an Elite.4 at 4 ohm (150rms x 4) keeps up with my 4 tens with 2400 rms on them just fine. The Ti265CS components aren't too far behind the Elites. I'd just get two sets of those, run the 5 channel at 4 ohm on the front/rear and be done with it. Four 6.5" drivers is plenty of midbass/midrange for the sub system you are talking about. Especially if you are going to put both sets in the front stage. No need to over complicate it with coaxials and point source speakers.
Being loud without good sound quality is pointless, but having good sound quality without being loud is also pointless.
Re: New to PG... need help with new all PG build!
Thanks for the input and detail man. You definitely have a nice system. Being just the super cab, I don't have as much depth to work with as you did under your back seats. I won't be able fit more than 2 10's back there especially if ported. I am a basshead as well... which is why I really wanted to utilize the center console 10" sub along with new rear subs allowing me to get the most out of the limited space. I have to keep the center console anyhow as I don't have the original to replace it with. Being that you had a single ported ti210, how do you think 2 ported ti210's would sound on 940watts from the ti21600.5?
I decided I can remove the back bench seat altogether so I can place the amp and capacitor and have room for the subs in a larger ported box. The back area is only used for cargo but I may end up making the sub enclosure into the seat bottom and keeping the factory seatback against the wall to try and keep it factory looking. Definitely open to ideas here for the enclosure, port and sub directions. These are the approximate dimensions of the rear that I have to work with: 13" depth, 60" width, and about 12.5" height from floor to seat top on the sides and 10.5" in the center over the tranny hump. With the rear bench seat gone, I can have a little more depth and height if needed.
How do your comps sound with your tweeters being mounted pretty low in the doors? My door speakers are mounted much higher in the doors than yours so the imaging with the 6x8's in the factory location isn't horrible. I would definitely love to have 2 sets of Elite components in front and rear like yours but I feel using components in the rear would be wasted in my truck since there would not be anybody sitting back there. The Elite.65 are also far more expensive than the ti69's. The rears will be mainly for additional midbass and volume while also adding a some rear fill. The Elite and Ti comp sets match the power output of the amp better than the 6x9's and are the main reason I would consider them over the 6x9's.
I'm still hoping to run 2 pair of matching speakers off the front 2 channels at 2ohm so I can use the rear channels for an additional sub if the amp will do it. I'm trying to stick with the one large class d amp for space reasons and efficiency so I can continue reliably on stock electrical. I just want to get the most power out of it as possible for what I have to work with.
I decided I can remove the back bench seat altogether so I can place the amp and capacitor and have room for the subs in a larger ported box. The back area is only used for cargo but I may end up making the sub enclosure into the seat bottom and keeping the factory seatback against the wall to try and keep it factory looking. Definitely open to ideas here for the enclosure, port and sub directions. These are the approximate dimensions of the rear that I have to work with: 13" depth, 60" width, and about 12.5" height from floor to seat top on the sides and 10.5" in the center over the tranny hump. With the rear bench seat gone, I can have a little more depth and height if needed.
How do your comps sound with your tweeters being mounted pretty low in the doors? My door speakers are mounted much higher in the doors than yours so the imaging with the 6x8's in the factory location isn't horrible. I would definitely love to have 2 sets of Elite components in front and rear like yours but I feel using components in the rear would be wasted in my truck since there would not be anybody sitting back there. The Elite.65 are also far more expensive than the ti69's. The rears will be mainly for additional midbass and volume while also adding a some rear fill. The Elite and Ti comp sets match the power output of the amp better than the 6x9's and are the main reason I would consider them over the 6x9's.
I'm still hoping to run 2 pair of matching speakers off the front 2 channels at 2ohm so I can use the rear channels for an additional sub if the amp will do it. I'm trying to stick with the one large class d amp for space reasons and efficiency so I can continue reliably on stock electrical. I just want to get the most power out of it as possible for what I have to work with.