Phoenix Gold Phorum

Hey guys, I was just wondering if setting a crossover too high can damage the subwoofer. I usually set mine to about 120hz because I like the way it impacts for rock music. I know it seems to draw more current the higher I set it. I know the usual rule of thumb is 80hz, but I feel it doesn't do my car justice. My mid bass sucks in my car. I was thinking about making custom kick panels and have dedicated midbass, so I can set my sub crossover lower.

I have a grand marquis with pioneer 6x8 up front and pioneer 6x9 in back, I figured those speakers would give me some sort of midbass but they don't. They are hooked up to a tantrum 400.4 while my sub is hooked up to a 1200.1.

What can I do to improve midbass so I don't have to have my sub crossover so high?

you could try to make a simple enclosure out of Tupperware-style stuff to mount around the rear speakers too see if it helps. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't but it doesn't cost much to find out. Just try to get some that are as sturdy as possible that fit as nice as you can find and if you need them thicker I have used sound damping material like second skin damplifier pro to help a little bit as well.

Having a sub play higher freqs can help distortion/clipping to sneak in a little faster then with out them, and probably creates a little more heat in the speaker to go along with that extra power draw but as long as your not going crazy on volume for long periods you should be fine. Keep it clean and out of clipping and should not be anything to worry about.

To increase the mid bass, i would swap the front speakers out for a 6.5" component set. It will cost you a bit of dough but this hobby is rarely cheap. The least expensive thing to try would be what ttocs suggested and enclose the 6x8's with some tupperware. Worth a shot.

LL

LowandLoud wrote:To increase the mid bass, i would swap the front speakers out for a 6.5" component set. It will cost you a bit of dough but this hobby is rarely cheap. The least expensive thing to try would be what ttocs suggested and enclose the 6x8's with some tupperware. Worth a shot.

LL

What component set would you recommend? I have heard good things about the rsd 65cs, but idk where I'd be able to buy them.

do you have now, or have you considered some kind of equalizer? Even if your deck has one stepping up to a real off-board eq can often help.

Another option might be to go with a pair of Q-Forms kick panels. On some vehicles they make a 6.5". You'd need to take some dynamat and cover the inside of the kick panel to make it more rugged, but once you do that it'll work fine. That's probably the cheapest option if the tupperware bowl doesn't work. A set of Qforms would run about $200 or so, and then you'd need about 2 square feet of sound deadening material. Scrap pieces would work.

If all they make is a 5.25" kick panel for your car, you could do that, and then look at some Tangband 6x9 subwoofers to go in the factory 6x8 spot, but some cutting would be required.

Either way, if they don't make a 6.5" kick panel, and the tupperware bowl doesn't work, you'll be looking at some cutting and fabricating of some sort. Personally I don't think you'll get what you're looking for from an oval full range speaker. Not because you can't get good midbass from an oval, but because no one really makes a high quality oval that can do the job. Some high end 6x9's are pretty good, I had a Polk set I liked years ago, but they are really just OEM replacements and not really high end drivers in general. An afterthought by speaker manufacturers as it were.

ttocs wrote:do you have now, or have you considered some kind of equalizer? Even if your deck has one stepping up to a real off-board eq can often help.

I do not have one actually. I was actually going to consider that as well. Get one of those eq215x processors. Don't really have a place to put it though. I got an amp rack now for my tantrum amps and thats about all the room I have unless I take out my spare tire, which I don't necessarily want to do.

So what I will try first is using your suggestion of making an enclosure out of tupperware material to see if that improves bass response. If that doesn't work, I MIGHT consider getting a new component set and make 1/2 inch mdf baffles to accompany a 6.5 inch woofer for the 6x8 location.

Another thought, I do have a factory cutout for an 8" driver in the rear deck next to the 6x9's. Must have came with an option for premium sound. I was thinking about running a dedicated midbass woofer back there, but I wouldn't know what would work really. I'd like to be able to drop in an IB sub and call it a day, but I haven't seen any options around really.

One thing about midbass frequencies is that you can localize them with your ear, so if you had a single 8" driver in the middle of your vehicle playing midbass it won't sound good.

To get good midbass you just about have to have a pair of speakers as far forward, as far back, or both with two pair, as you can get them, and play them in stereo. Otherwise it just won't sound right. You'd just about have to have a pair of something in your doors, kicks, or rear deck to do it right.

switching brands of speaker might be the ticket but going from a 6 x 8 to a 6.5 will be a smaller speaker so your not gaining surface area there to get more mid-bass. Hopefully no one will speak up and say how oval speakers can't sound as good as round ones. You can always look into something like the Rockford 360 for an easy to hide, easily accesable eq. there are a number of them that you could use a phone to tune so you would not need the surface area the 215 takes up.

Ohh yeah I forgot about those rockford units. I think I'm definitely going to have to look into that for an active eq solution. I could hide it virtually anywhere which is nice. I'm still going to try to make the enclosure for speakers too since it's cheap.

one option which i was very happy with in my other mustang was the image dynamics xs57 5x7 comps. they played well with out an enclosure in the factory 6x8 spot.

ttocs wrote: Hopefully no one will speak up and say how oval speakers can't sound as good as round ones.

I am far from being an expert, and i am sure someone makes a good set, but i have never heard a set of oval speakers that has made me say "yeah that sounds nice". Just saying.

LL

Oh, and i saw a set of RSDC65's on Egay today.

LL

LowandLoud wrote:

ttocs wrote: Hopefully no one will speak up and say how oval speakers can't sound as good as round ones.

I am far from being an expert, and i am sure someone makes a good set, but i have never heard a set of oval speakers that has made me say "yeah that sounds nice". Just saying.

LL

This. It isn't the shape of the speaker that is the problem though. It's the amount of attention and resources that companies put into those sizes. If they cared enough they'd make a 5x7 or 6x9 component set and stick it in their top end lines, rather than limit them to coax and triax.

to be fair though, low end extension and mid bass isn't the bigger issue I have had with the numerous sets of 6x9's I have been forced to run over the years so much as the mids and highs, and I attribute that to being coax/triax, and the up firing positioning of a rear deck mount. Really the 6x9 deck location is a great place and size for a rear midbass driver if you can get some 5.25 comps into the back doors or in that vicinity.

LowandLoud wrote:

ttocs wrote: Hopefully no one will speak up and say how oval speakers can't sound as good as round ones.

I am far from being an expert, and i am sure someone makes a good set, but i have never heard a set of oval speakers that has made me say "yeah that sounds nice". Just saying.

LL

Would love to blind A-B demo round vs oval and see how many you can really tell is the oval speaker. There are companies out there that make 5 x 7 componants and if you can tell the sound of an oval speaker vs a round one I think you have earned the "golden ears" status.

ttocs wrote:

LowandLoud wrote:

ttocs wrote: Hopefully no one will speak up and say how oval speakers can't sound as good as round ones.

I am far from being an expert, and i am sure someone makes a good set, but i have never heard a set of oval speakers that has made me say "yeah that sounds nice". Just saying.

LL

Would love to blind A-B demo round vs oval and see how many you can really tell is the oval speaker. There are companies out there that make 5 x 7 componants and if you can tell the sound of an oval speaker vs a round one I think you have earned the "golden ears" status.

I agree with scott. I had a set of kenwood HQ710's,which were 7x10 with a 6x9 adapter, in the rear deck of my 81 camaro.Ans a set of 1" kenwood titanium tweets on the apillars. I had people swear I was running a pair of 10s.

That was the only car I had that I didnt mind not having a front stage to speak of. i guess it had something to do with the shape of the car.

I say keep it simple. 2 6x8 and 2 6x9 should be able to produce a noticable amount of midbass. Try the containers and make sure all the speakers are sealed around the edges good. You may be getting cancellation.

I feel like I am getting cancellation. I don't have work tomorrow so I am going to try out the containers and see how it all works. Thanks for the input guys!

try adjusting the balance fader from left/right/front/back and see if you notice the bass increases when you go to one side or the other. You might have a speaker or two out of phase(wired backwards) so that when the bass hits for every mm one speaker goes forward, the other goes backwards. This cancels the bass out and gives the tweeter/midrange a strange sound that I really can't explain. It makes the sound VERY hard to localize and "see"/hear what area its coming from. Once you get to know it though you can identify it almost instantly. For me all I need to do is physically see where the speakers are at and the by turning my head if I can't tell that I can't really "hear/see" where the sound is coming from that something is out of phase. Like I said if you adjust the balance to the left and the bass gets louder then you know but I too have heard 6 x9s that I thought were 10s

Got some good results! I found some perfect sized tupperware containers for my front speakers. Sealing off my front speakers made a difference in my panel vibration too! Doesn't seem to rattle all over now, just the spot it actually is now haha. Now I just gotta do the rear speakers the same way and I should be set! Thanks for you input guys! I also messed around with my eq some more on my deck. I have 5 band eq with q adjustments. Sounds much cleaner now.