REALLY HELP!!! Setting up ZX series amplifiers crossovers.

[onecrazy95civic]

I need help to properly/correctly set up my 3 Reactor amplifiers. Crossovers setting is by far my weak point for me and to be honest at times find it hard to comprehend!!! I have no problem wiring, fabricating, but setting up crossovers properly now that is asking a lot for me!!! My 3 Reactor amplifiers are now install in the car and I’m at the stage of setting up the amplifiers crossovers. I'm sure some of you on this forum are expert at setting up PG crossover amplifiers. I have a good idea but want to make sure that they are set up properly, correctly and at their optimum. Here’s my set up (I also included a diagram to help visualize the set up):

1. For the front stage: Signal comes from the front Ti EQ30 into the “Front input” of the Reactor #2 (Mid) ZX450 then signals jumps from the Reactor #2 (Mid) ZX450 “External Output” to Reactor #1 (Top) ZX450 “Front input”. Then it goes out from Reactor #1 (Top) ZX450 “External Output” to the “Input” of Reactor #1 (Top) ZX500.

-Reactor #2 ZX450 powers set #1 of Ti Elite 5m (left door).
-Reactor #1 ZX450 powers set #2 of Ti Elite 5m (right door).
-Reactor #1 ZX500 powers a pair of Ti Elite 9m (mid-bass).

Question: What would be the optimum/proper way to set up the crossovers of Reactor #1 & #2 (i.e. Bypass, etc)?

2. For the rear stage: Signal comes from the rear Ti EQ30 into the “Front input” of the Reactor #3 (Bot) ZX450.

-Reactor #3 ZX450 powers 2 sets of Ti Elite 5m (rear and trunk).

Question: What would be the optimum/proper way to set up the crossovers of Reactor #3 ZX450 side (i.e. Bypass, etc)?

3. For the subs: Signal comes out from the Basscube to Reactor #2 (Mid) ZX500 “Input” then jumps from the Reactor #2 “Output” to Reactor #3 (Bot) ZX500 “Input”.

-Reactor #2 ZX500 powers #1 of 2 Ti 15d (sub).
-Reactor #3 ZX500 powers #2 of 2 Ti 15d (sub).

Question: What would be the optimum/proper way to set up the crossovers of Reactor #2 ZX500 side and Reactor #3 ZX500 side (i.e. Bypass, etc)?

Any help/recommendations are welcome.

[onecrazy95civic]

I really need help/guidance with this... Like mentionned earlier my 3 Reactor amplifiers are now install in the car and I’m at the stage of setting up the amplifiers crossovers. What I need is guidance on how to properly set up the crossovers. I have a good idea but want to make sure that they are set up properly. This is a more detail narrative of my system lay out.

1. For the front stage: Signal comes from the front Ti EQ30 into the “Front input” of the Reactor #2 (Mid) ZX450 then signals jumps from the Reactor #2 (Mid) ZX450 “External Output” to Reactor #1 (Top) ZX450 “Front input”. Then it goes out from Reactor #1 (Top) ZX450 “External Output” to the “Input” of Reactor #1 (Top) ZX500.

-Reactor #2 ZX450 powers set #1 of Ti Elite 5m (left door).
-Reactor #1 ZX450 powers set #2 of Ti Elite 5m (right door).
-Reactor #1 ZX500 powers a pair of Ti Elite 9m (mid-bass).

Question: What would be the optimum/proper crossover set up of Reactor #1 & #2 (i.e. Bypass, etc)?

2. For the rear stage: Signal comes from the rear Ti EQ30 into the “Front input” of the Reactor #3 (Bot) ZX450.

-Reactor #3 ZX450 powers 2 sets of Ti Elite 5m (rear and trunk).

Question: What would be the optimum/proper way to set up the crossovers of Reactor #3 ZX450 side (i.e. Bypass, etc)?

3. For the subs: Signal comes out from the Basscube to Reactor #2 (Mid) ZX500 “Input” then jumps from the Reactor #2 “Output” to Reactor #3 (Bot) ZX500 “Input”.

-Reactor #2 ZX500 powers #1 of 2 Ti 15d (sub).
-Reactor #3 ZX500 powers #2 of 2 Ti 15d (sub).

Question: What would be the optimum/proper way to set up the crossovers of Reactor #2 ZX500 side and Reactor #3 ZX500 side (i.e. Bypass, etc)?

Also, if you guys have any recommendation, questions, etc...please feel free to do so. Thanks in advance for any help you guys can provide...

[Eric D]

I don't think the crossover built into the two channel ZX amps allows for a bypass output. It is either high pass, or low pass. Your connection from one ZX500 to the other for sub duty should be replaced with some "Y" cables.

Also, this is maybe just me personally, but I don't like how you can't EQ your sub at all with your design. Yes, you can use the BassCUBE to boost the bass, but you are not making use of the low frequency filters in your EQ30 EQs.

If I had your equipment, I would run one set of RCAs into one EQ30, and then out to a chassis mount crossover of some sort (maybe like an AudioControl DQX). This would then feed the amplifer channels, and all their on board crossovers would not be used.

I would wire the second EQ30 in parallel with the first, with a switching device on its output. This would allow one EQ to be set for your personal prefence, and the second for SQ competition. Using the switching device, you can swap between the two setups instantly.

[zeropoint0.5]

personally i think there's too much equipment in this setup......

working with the audison bit one, you don't need both eq's and the tld66 any more.......

and using all the amps in fullrange.........i would still use the basscube and use Y splitters

at the output of it to both zx500's who feed the subwoofers.....

I would feed the ti9's with a zx450 , front and rear brigded on each one, cause you will have

more power on it then a zx500 in stereo......(use that one stereo 4 ohm on the 5inch/tweeter 2 passive 2way)

http://www.audison.eu/index.php?page=product&id=49

you can set everything up in the audison processor......place it in the back as close as possible to the amps.....


in another "old scool" setup i would take the audison bit one out, and use tld66/both eq and the internal

crossovers of the amps.....only thing here will probably be the use of the other stuff then just listening to

music like watching tv and everything.....



the only thing that happens now, is creating a worse "signal to noise ratio" signal by all those

"stations" where the signal has to go through....;;;

[Eric D]

I just downloaded the manual to the Bit One, and I have to agree, you don't need a lot of the other equipment in there, it would just be adding to your noise floor, and further degrading your signal throughout. The Bit One should do probably 90% of what you need it too do, and the on board amp crossovers can make up for the few areas the Bit One lacks.

[onecrazy95civic]

Thanks for the replies and I agree I do have a lot of equipment making this tuning even harder for me to figure out!!! The day they decided to include an Ipad in the install it seems everything went south from there...sold the Alpine IVA-D900 to replace it by an Ipad but now needed something to be able to play the music, movies, etc... from the Ipad...there came the Bit One which is suppose to do everything. But once I got it realise the EQs where no longer really needed but were already installed and wired up. I read that I could Bypass the EQ in the Bit One but still retain the other functions which permits me to play the Ipad, etc... To be honest I regret getting the Bit One...

@Eric D : "I don't think the crossover built into the two channel ZX amps allows for a bypass output. It is either high pass, or low pass. Your connection from one ZX500 to the other for sub duty should be replaced with some "Y" cables."

-Both Ti subs are bridged.
-On the ZX500 it has a xover bypass switch.
-This is how I presently have the xover set at : Signal comes out from the Basscube to Reactor #2 (Mid) ZX500 “Input” then jumps from the Reactor #2 “Output” with xover switch set at LP and bypass switch at "on" to Reactor #3 (Bot) ZX500 “Input” with xover switch set at LP and bypass switch at "off". Does that work or am I better off with the "Y" cables set up. And from there I could put both ZX500 xover switches at LP and bypass switch at "off"….?

“If I had your equipment, I would run one set of RCAs into one EQ30, and then out to a chassis mount crossover of some sort (maybe like an AudioControl DQX). This would then feed the amplifier channels, and all their on board crossovers would not be used.”

-I just don’t want to add more equipment but didn’t PG have those xovers? If yes which model would you recommend for this set up? Once install all the on board crossovers would be set at what? Also one of those could make setting up a lot easier, especially once the Reactor amplifiers are install the covers are nearly impossible to remove.

“I would wire the second EQ30 in parallel with the first, with a switching device on its output. This would allow one EQ to be set for your personal preference, and the second for SQ competition. Using the switching device, you can swap between the two setups instantly.”

-I use to be set up that way, using a SONANCE switching device. One EQ was set up for sound and the other for RTA. But honestly am considering going back to this set up just have to figure how to do it with a TLD66 I guess I would have to eliminate it.

@zeropoint0.5 : "personally i think there's too much equipment in this setup”

-I agree, but like mention the Ipad threw a wrench in the set up and spiral out of control from there.

“in another "old scool" setup i would take the audison bit one out, and use tld66/both eq and the internal crossovers of the amps.....only thing here will probably be the use of the other stuff then just listening to music like watching tv and everything.....”

-I’m an “old school” guy…lol…How would you include the ipad and should not have sold my IVA-D900 this thing could run everything…except the Ipad…

I can hear it from hear…”this guy is F$*# with is set up”…. Can agree more…but got to figure out how to make it all work together…Merging old technology with new not always easy!!!

[ReneBMW]

Just sell me one reactor, it Will make things a lot easyer.
Do it step by step and read the manuals, i also find it a bit confusing at times, but i use a dsp, so on my equipment its all bypass, wel, zpa without x-over card is always bypass...
Just start with the front, and take your time

[Stryker]

I'm sorry but all this equipment and you don't know how to set up the X-overs....
I haven't looked in depth at the diagrams you posted but not being able to EQ the subs in a waste, it helps so much in smooth transistion of sound from mid bass to sub.

Do not let this get you try out some settings on your own and find how you like the sound. With this many set up options I understand it may get confusing and quite possibly overwhelming but I always say doing is learning.
GL

[Eric D]

Unless I am mistaken, if you are running the ZX500 crossover on low pass, the RCA outputs will be on high pass, which would not work going to the next ZX500.

Because you are doing what looks like a 3-way front, and 2-way rear, with sub, I don't think PG has a solution. The AX406 can do the 3-way and sub I believe, but no rear at the same time. Maybe a combination of AX406, and AX204 would meet your needs. Or, a MX3i and MX2i.

All I can stress is that simple is better. Personally, I have installed equipment before which was not connected to anything, but did have power too it to make the LEDs light up. If you have nice equipment, I see nothing against installing it. However, if you try to use all that stuff at the same time you are probably inviting problems down the road.

Also, you better have an oscilloscope if you plan to get any good signal to noise ratio out of everything. With that much equipment you would want no clipping all the way though the signal path, and you can then add some gain overlap if you want it on the amp channels themselves (via their gain controls).

[Eric D]

I'm sorry but all this equipment and you don't know how to set up the X-overs....

I consider myself to have above average knowledge and experience with car audio, yet EVERY time I work on a ZX450 I find myself having to screw around with it for bit to get sound out of it. The crossover is quite elaborate, and offers a lot of different configurations. Also, certain switches must be in certain positions to actually route full range signals to the amplifier's channels. Of all the amps I have ever worked on, I have yet to come across one with a more complex crossover than the ZX450 has. I did find my SoundStream Reference 705S to have a very complex crossover as well, but the diagram painted right on the bottom of the amp makes setting it up far easier.

[zeropoint0.5]

http://download.phoenixphorum.com/Manua ... 2chann.pdf

http://download.phoenixphorum.com/Manua ... /zx450.pdf

here are the manuals..................

[onecrazy95civic]

Again thanks to everyone for the replies...

Here are some changes that I just did to the wiring:
1. I installed "Y" cables out of the basscube to the two ZX500, as recommended.
2. I'm looking at including the subs with the EQs...just trying to figure out where will it be the best place to connect...any suggestion?
3. All 3 ZX500 crossovers are now set (bass & mid-bass)

The hardest is to figure out the ZX450 crossovers...wow!!! Chinese to me but will take my time and do it with help...lol

I don’t want to add more equipment, want to do it with what I got…if to…will eliminate some… I’m considering installing Sonance and use both EQs separately. But this requires rewiring the amps…’lots of work!!!

To @Eric D@ any info aside the manual you can give to me when tuning the xovers?

To @Styker@ “I'm sorry but all this equipment and you don't know how to set up the X-overs....”
-Yep!!! X-overs setting are just not my thing and are confusing to me. All these years of IASCA competing and never really took the time setting my xovers and a body of mine who just was a genius at it…but he’s no longer here…

To @zeropoint0.5@ "here are the manuals.................."
-Got them already...

[zeropoint0.5]

because you want to use the crossovers of the amps and not using them in the audison processor,

i would do it like this.....

for the front,

rca out of the front eq, to the front input of the zx450, set rear feed to front so front and rear get the same signal,

connect on front and rear the 4 twoway systems (so on both in stereo 4 ohm) set both on a highpass signal of

for example 100hz, the external output will receive a lowpass signal from the rear channel (100hz lowpass), go

from this external output to the zx500 feeding both ti9's, and set that crossover to a highpass signal of around 60 hz....

the ti9's will no play on a bandpass signal from 60 to 100hz......

then go from the external output of that zx500 to the basscube, go from the basscube with Y splitters to the two other

zx500's with each a 15 inch on them.....; you can set both crossovers of those zx500's on a high pass signal of 30hz, on

this way you can have the use of a subsonic filter if you want....

for lpl44 -- to control both 15 inch you have to put it in the first zx500 that plays on the ti9's.

for lpl44-- to control both ti9's you have to put them in the front zx450...........


for the rear you can do the same with the remaining zx450..... with front and rear in stereo on 4 ohm, the amps will

have the highest damping factor and you will get the best sound out of it.........


i'm still guessing now you have a zx450 speakerless .....damn......do you have some speakers left ??

[Stryker]

Don't misunderstand me... I didn't mean to be harsh sounding, that being said it sounds like alot to digest equipment wise...
I beleive it can be done, but with the sheer amount of equipment the noise floor will be hard to keep low.
where there is a will there is a way

[onecrazy95civic]

Don't misunderstand me... I didn't mean to be harsh sounding, that being said it sounds like alot to digest equipment wise...I beleive it can be done, but with the sheer amount of equipment the noise floor will be hard to keep low. where there is a will there is a way

No offense taken my friend... I knew when i started this tread some heat was going to come with it!!! after nearly 25 years in the military it takes a lot to offend me!!! lol... I also know when to say " I have no idea...bla bla I need help"... And just happen to be xovers is my weakness!!! And that is why I'm asking the pros of this site to give me a hand and recommendations which to some of them I already did...such as "Y" cables or considering... I want this system not to only look good crazy but sound good. Seen to many incredible install in my years and sounded like shit...and certainly don't want to go that path and recognizing this was the path I was heading. So please any recommendation, comments...keep them coming...after all I'm an old school PG guy..lol

[ttocs]

I am the kind of dude that would love to have this in my garage to tune and tweek but trying to remember equipment I have not had infront of me regularly for 10+ yrs scared me off.... I too remember that the 450 and the xtant amps (with all the stupid jumpers)are the only amps that I ever HAD to get the manual to set....

[Eric D]

Good call, I forgot about Xtant. I once spent at a whole evening trying to get sound out of an Xtant amp I had repaired, and the owner had moved the jumpers all over into the wrong locations.

[Eric D]

OK, here is a diagram of what I would do if it were me...

[LowandLoud]

Wow, awesome diagram. That makes sense to me, should simplify the signal path a whole bunch.

LL

[Eric D]

One mistake, the ZX500 at the bottom needs both a Red and a Black input. I made both black, which is not correct.