Elite.65cs versus HAT Imagine

[sunshinefc3s]

Has anyone heard both of these speakers? I've heard nothing but rave reviews about the HAT Imagines. One shop (who sells both) said that the Imagines are the best speakers he has ever heard (next to the Clarus line). Then there are the forum fan boys singing the Imagine's praises. I've also heard the Elites are outstanding.

Can anyone who has heard both speakers give me their impressions? I know about the subjective blah blah, soundboard versus car blah blah. Just want to hear some opinions.

Side note, I'm currently using Hertz HSK-165s. I like the way they sound but they are very very fragile speakers. Last set of Hertz for me. Prior, I had several sets of Boston Acoustics...and loved them. Too bad about BA.

Running speakers with an old PG Ti500.4. Might be upgrading to a new PG Ti2 1600.5.

Thanks in advance!
-Alex

[kg1961]

Imo I like boston pros the most im going to run image dynamic as I could not get a set in my price range I have a normal set of ti but soso cheap imo

[dvnt88]

I've ran the old elites (Morel) as well as 2 of the current sets of elites off a Xenon 100.4 (for testing reasons as they're in the stash) and they sound fan-fucking-tastic. I'm currently running 2 sets of the ID XS65's off an Elite.5 and sound just as good as the new Elite comps ...each to their own taste, but for the money and sound quality ... I'd go with either the new Elite comps or the ID's if ya get the chance , best sounding set of comps I've heard to date in their price range, just my .10c as my .02c is free.

[Kirghiz]

I have three sets of Elite.65's and they sound pretty damn good. They aren't fragile at all either. Can't comment on the HAT's, but they are cheaper, and the ability to mount the tweeter in a coax configuration is cool.

[nueces5]

I heard the imagines, and sounds great. are 100 rms against 150

[Kirghiz]

I heard the imagines, and sounds great. are 100 rms against 150

That 150 watt rating on the Elites is just there to keep stupid people from doing stupid things. They were made to run off the Elite.4, and the birth sheet rms power for mine is 187 watts rms at 14.4 Volts. I run my Elite.4 around 15 volts, and will take the volume up to the edge of clipping, without clipping it, and those speakers will run there all day long. That has to be close to 225 watts I figure on the rear set where the amp is at 4 ohm. The front two sets are at two ohm, seeing a little over 300 a channel, which is more in line with what's recommended. Another guy on here had a set running off an Elite.5's bridged full range channels. That is every bit of 225 watts.

The Elites will take at least 225 watts unclipped if you cross them around 70-80 hz. I'm pretty well convinced of that. They are not fragile speakers at all.

[sunshinefc3s]

I heard the imagines, and sounds great. are 100 rms against 150

That 150 watt rating on the Elites is just there to keep stupid people from doing stupid things. They were made to run off the Elite.4, and the birth sheet rms power for mine is 187 watts rms at 14.4 Volts. I run my Elite.4 around 15 volts, and will take the volume up to the edge of clipping, without clipping it, and those speakers will run there all day long. That has to be close to 225 watts I figure on the rear set where the amp is at 4 ohm. The front two sets are at two ohm, seeing a little over 300 a channel, which is more in line with what's recommended. Another guy on here had a set running off an Elite.5's bridged full range channels. That is every bit of 225 watts.

The Elites will take at least 225 watts unclipped if you cross them around 70-80 hz. I'm pretty well convinced of that. They are not fragile speakers at all.

Thats great to hear. I think that might be close to sealing the deal for me (pending a listen at a local dealer). Question...hows the midbass? The guys on DIYMA say that the tweeter is excellent, but the midbass is a little weak-ish (compared to the HATs at least). You happy with the midbass?
Thx.
-a

[Kirghiz]

I started out with a just two sets in place of the front and rear door speakers, and honestly found the midbass lacking. A proper enclosure in the doors may or may not have cleaned it up, I don't know. I didn't want to mess with the doors too much. Instead I opted to put a third set in the kick panels, dropping my front channels to two ohm. I dialed up the mid bass frequencies on my EQ (And dialed down the tweeters) and that pretty well fixed it. I can turn the subs off and play just the comps crossed around 75 hz and they'll still move the mirror a little. But, I guess when you have three sets of 6.5" Components with close to 1000 watts rms going just to them you'll have that. I will say that on rock and metal they keep up with, and blend with a pair of Elite 12's seeing 4000 watts from an Elite.1 very well.

[nueces5]

I heard the imagines, and sounds great. are 100 rms against 150

That 150 watt rating on the Elites is just there to keep stupid people from doing stupid things. They were made to run off the Elite.4, and the birth sheet rms power for mine is 187 watts rms at 14.4 Volts. I run my Elite.4 around 15 volts, and will take the volume up to the edge of clipping, without clipping it, and those speakers will run there all day long. That has to be close to 225 watts I figure on the rear set where the amp is at 4 ohm. The front two sets are at two ohm, seeing a little over 300 a channel, which is more in line with what's recommended. Another guy on here had a set running off an Elite.5's bridged full range channels. That is every bit of 225 watts.

The Elites will take at least 225 watts unclipped if you cross them around 70-80 hz. I'm pretty well convinced of that. They are not fragile speakers at all.

A Friend run the HAT 200 rms, no problems. I was saying to understand what purpose is built each speaker. Perhaps the imagine is for anyone who wants to listen to a lower volume level, without changing too much in the installation. Hat souds great

[kg1961]

I'm not sure but having to have 3 set of the top of the line speaker to get mid bass sounds f*@# to me

I have used the boston pro or even jl xr off 75 watt x2 and they made my mirror move. not a sub but man
I think if that is the case pg should really look into better speakers
as focal boston jl and many other do a lot more for a lot less when you need to buy 3pairs

[Drock]

I'm not sure but having to have 3 set of the top of the line speaker to get mid bass sounds f*@# to me

I have used the boston pro or even jl xr off 75 watt x2 and they made my mirror move. not a sub but man
I think if that is the case pg should really look into better speakers
as focal boston jl and many other do a lot more for a lot less when you need to buy 3pairs

Actually try it and then get back to us on that.
One set has plenty of mid bass. But a:) every door is different. And there is no comparison between three set and one. Unless you drop in a 6" sub.


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[kg1961]

what im saying is no company top end speakers should need 3 mids per side to have mid bass that is just stupid. great if you can but 99% of people will not have the money or even the space let alone the power to do that

[Stryker]

I get great mid bass from my MTX blue thunders, circa 1992 with about 120 watts RMS. If needing 3 sets of a supposed top line speaker to achieve acceptable mid bass.... well I would say that would be dissappointing no matter what manufacturer. It has alot to do with the setup/enclosure and lots of other things. EQing the sound certainly makes a huge difference from my experience.

[Drock]

I have two sets in the front and two sets in the back. And the difference is huge. Not just a little. Sure you can get loud with some eq-ing, and crossovers cutoff at higher frequencies in order to get them to perform without being fatiguing on your ears. IMO a pair does the job much better without sacrificing the low end without having to go with a three way to pickup the slack.
The elites will keep up to most any other speaker no problem. But for guys like myself, one set of comps of any kind would never be enough. And that's my preference. It doesn't mean the speakers are not capable.
And some would say that multiple sets will f-up imaging. But again IMO with a little help from a processor that is fixed up.


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[Kirghiz]

To be fair though, I am a basshead who wants good sound quality. When I say I wasn't happy with the midbass, that is trying to have balanced sound quality at 130+db. With three sets, my system sounds awesome at all frequencies at live concert volume. Two sets sounded just fine at "normal people listening levels", but I can't bring myself to play it there.

[kg1961]

Ok but imo 130db is normal with 1/2 the gear you have

Now let be fair pg has never made there own nice.speaker morel did there best so not pg
They make great amps eq and xover
Wish they did but really look at other brands same with there new subs they are not great to the elite great to some but look at others needing 3k plus we all just want it to be the same brand

[Kirghiz]

If the Imagines sound better and can take the power, they are definitely better speakers, especially since they're cheaper. Comparing the Elite.65's to the Morel Ti's isn't really fair because they cost a lot more. The new Morel and Focals sound better, but also cost more. It isn't about whether or not something is someone's top speaker, it's about cost, and where that cost fits in the market. I readily admit that the Elite.65's aren't the best on the market, but for the price, they compare pretty well with other speakers at the same price point.

[sunshinefc3s]

If the Imagines sound better and can take the power, they are definitely better speakers, especially since they're cheaper. Comparing the Elite.65's to the Morel Ti's isn't really fair because they cost a lot more. The new Morel and Focals sound better, but also cost more. It isn't about whether or not something is someone's top speaker, it's about cost, and where that cost fits in the market. I readily admit that the Elite.65's aren't the best on the market, but for the price, they compare pretty well with other speakers at the same price point.

True, but the new Elite.65cs can be gotten for very close to the price of the Imagines. Yes, MSRP is more, but the out-the-door negotiated price difference is very small. Just need to find a dealer that will work with you a little bit. Thats what led me to ask this question in the first place.

So if Morel made the old Elite speakers, who makes the new Elites?

-a

[kg1961]

If the Imagines sound better and can take the power, they are definitely better speakers, especially since they're cheaper. Comparing the Elite.65's to the Morel Ti's isn't really fair because they cost a lot more. The new Morel and Focals sound better, but also cost more. It isn't about whether or not something is someone's top speaker, it's about cost, and where that cost fits in the market. I readily admit that the Elite.65's aren't the best on the market, but for the price, they compare pretty well with other speakers at the same price point.

Im not saying anything about my speaker im just making a point pg does not make good/high speaker there just above average
They make great amps
Im not saying flea market either. If they made a better speaker and charged more people will pay that why there are a ton of higherned brand that still do this today. That why pg is cheaper made and priced because if they were to charge more peope would nit buy them as they are not all that great

[kg1961]

If the Imagines sound better and can take the power, they are definitely better speakers, especially since they're cheaper. Comparing the Elite.65's to the Morel Ti's isn't really fair because they cost a lot more. The new Morel and Focals sound better, but also cost more. It isn't about whether or not something is someone's top speaker, it's about cost, and where that cost fits in the market. I readily admit that the Elite.65's aren't the best on the market, but for the price, they compare pretty well with other speakers at the same price point.

True, but the new Elite.65cs can be gotten for very close to the price of the Imagines. Yes, MSRP is more, but the out-the-door negotiated price difference is very small. Just need to find a dealer that will work with you a little bit. Thats what led me to ask this question in the first place.

So if Morel made the old Elite speakers, who makes the new Elites?
Pg does in house.I just think if the market is there to make a elite amp than the speaker should be just as nice. They are not even in the same league
Again I would not have put elite on them but that is just me

Im not going to say anything else


Pg makes them now that is what im saying they have never made a very nice set of speaker to date yet
-a

[Kirghiz]

You're right. The Elite speakers are above average, not amazing, but the thread isn't about comparing those speakers against Utopia Be's. They're in a mid-level pricepoint for components speakers. They're supposed to only be above average. Personally, I'm not the kind of person that is going to sit around in my Bentley with an array of Focal Utopias, sipping tea, and gush about how great the string section sounds in a symphony, so spending $1000 on a pair of speakers isn't a high priority for me. You either buy the best, like the Focals, or you aim for bang for the buck within your budget. If the HAT Imagines sound better than the Elites that's great. I might even go get three sets if they can take my power and listening habits, but I firmly believe the Elite speakers are very strong for that $350ish pricepoint, in terms of delivering good sound quality and spl. Pricepoint is the only reasonable comparison one can make when it comes to products like this. Phoenix Gold does not make high end speakers like Morel and Focal. I concede that. But, for the pricepoints they do make speakers in, they are pretty damn good.

Now, having said all of that, if a professional installer says a $300 set of HAT Imagines are the best set of speakers they've ever heard......... I wouldn't trust that guy's opinion on much of anything. But that's just me.

[kg1961]

Correct if im wrong the elite have a 499 retail not 350?
Im noy say hi end focal but there a ton of nicer sounding speaker at 500


sorry I stand corrected pas mag said $429.99 a set
that's 1300 for mid bass you can a hell of a lot better for that money
http://www.pasmag.com/car-audio/reports ... t-speakers

[Kirghiz]

Correct if im wrong the elite have a 499 retail not 350?
Im noy say hi end focal but there a ton of nicer sounding speaker at 500

The msrp is $399, and can actually be had for about $350 from a dealer, even if they don't like you much. Hell, I bought two sets NIB on ebay a few months back for $200 a piece. The price of them is the whole reason the OP is comparing them to the Imagines.

[keep_hope_alive]

I've compared the Imagine and Clarus (shipped to me directly from Scotty B. for evaluation) and put them up against the likes of Hertz, Alpine, JL, Rockford, and a few others. Neither the Clarus or Imagine were that impressive to me, so I didn't want them for myself. Besides evaluation in sound boards, i've build enclosures and installed in tuned vehicles for evaluation. The Clarus sounded better in my living room then they did in a car or sound board.

I've installed the Imagine in a few cars as well. They aren't amazing, they are a good budget speaker system (plastic baskets). Should be around $200. If you don't want fragile, you don't want plastic baskets.

Not sure what issues you're having with breaking speakers, maybe you don't know your own strength? Use a little finesse. I've installed Hertz speakers and own Mille's and have no issues with durability.

[sunshinefc3s]

I've compared the Imagine and Clarus (shipped to me directly from Scotty B. for evaluation) and put them up against the likes of Hertz, Alpine, JL, Rockford, and a few others. Neither the Clarus or Imagine were that impressive to me, so I didn't want them for myself. Besides evaluation in sound boards, i've build enclosures and installed in tuned vehicles for evaluation. The Clarus sounded better in my living room then they did in a car or sound board.

I've installed the Imagine in a few cars as well. They aren't amazing, they are a good budget speaker system (plastic baskets). Should be around $200. If you don't want fragile, you don't want plastic baskets.

Not sure what issues you're having with breaking speakers, maybe you don't know your own strength? Use a little finesse. I've installed Hertz speakers and own Mille's and have no issues with durability.

Thanks for the review. I've melted a tweeter, and then (separately) fried a woofer on my HSK set. In another vehicle, an ESK co-ax rear fill speaker got fried as well. These are my only speaker casualties in 18 years of car audio hobbying. Three failures and all of the same brand. I cant ignore that as a coincidence. I don't listen loud, don't compete, and always set my gains and volume conservatively.

I think Hertz speakers sound good when they work. I can confidently compare them to an Alfa Romeo.

Do you have any recommendations in this price range?