Line driver for ZX?

[imo1]

Hi guys

I heard that the x200.4 needs a line driver to boost its input voltage in order to get the most out of it.

I didnt get all the facts, but started wondering if my ZX450 and ZX500 could also benefit from one?

I run signal from my Alpine 117 to the 2 amps. I believe the HU is 4v preout.
Currently the gain on my zx450 is on half, and the ZX500 is on 3/4.
The 450 runs a passive set of comps from 2 channels and the 500 deals with a sub bridged.

Any feedback will be appreciated.

Thanks

[zeropoint0.5]

hi there,

i personally have the best results with a pld1 as line driver in front of a zx amplifier......

when i was younger, i didn't know better and until today i still regret i didn't used them

for 10 years i had a zx500/zx450 and zx350 in my car......bought them new in 1998........

normally with one pld1 you should be fine, cause you can go from one zx amp to another one

with the rca in and outputs..... as bass gain u can use a lpl44.........

if you want to use the subwoofer control of the headunit, u will need a second line driver......

both in signal/noise , sound and dynamic you will hear a very hugh difference.......

on a output of a 4V preout, i usually put the pld1 gain at around 3 o'clock, and the amp gains totally

closed........

if i had to start another setup with zx amps tomorrow, it wouldn't be without the pld1's..........

[zeropoint0.5]

if you want to do it with one pld1, using the zx450 as 2 channel amp,

go from headunit/front rca to pld1, to zx500, from the zx500 rca output

to the zx450 (as 2channel amp you need Y splitters here)

here u use the internal crossover of the zx500, headunit gives full range signal.....


if you use the zx450 as 4 channel amp, u could go from headunit front rca to pld1,

to zx450 (front input, rear input receiving the front input signals also) and from the

zx450 output rca to the zx500........


if you could find 2 pld's, would even better, using one as speakers pre amp, the second

one as sub pre amp.............



just a suggestion maybe, but with the zx450 you could run active on the composet......

the advantage of the zx amps are the internal crossovers you can build a total active system......

[imo1]

Thanks for the quick reply.
Yeah the current setup sounds really good, but if there's any way i can improve it with just what i have, its totally worth a try.
I dont see myself changing the equipment anytime soon so the line driver will be a quick add-on.

[imo1]

Im currently running the only 2 channels of the 450 to my comps at 2ohm, and have 2 free channels.
The passive crossover in the Focal set works well for me.

If i can get the benefits you explained, i'd really like to get a line driver. And i def would like to be able to control my sub seperately.

[vwdude]

You can also get the SLD44 which is a 4 channel line driver. It's not as easy to find. I'm using one, I'm about 1/2 way brought an install with it so I can let you know how it works when I power everything up. I'm using ZPAs not zx though.

[Eric D]

I am not 100% certain, but I am pretty confident that the x200.4 will reach full output at minimum gain, using a 4V head unit.

Like I said, I am not 100% certain of this, but I remember being able to easily drive my x200.4 to full output on my test bench with my 4V source unit.

So, if this is true, a PLD-1 won't be of much use on an x200.4. You would be running 4V into the PLD-1, and then 4V out of it, so you don't overdrive the input section of the x200.4. In this case you would just be adding more noise to the system, although likely not enough to be audible.

In the case of ZX amps, I think you need about 5V to fully drive them with the gain all the way down. The extra 1V improvement in signal to noise using the PLD-1 vs just the 4V head unit is likely not going to be audible, but even if it is not, there are other advantages to using the PLD-1.

-One advantage is the ability to drive more amp inputs then most head units can drive on their own.
-Another is the PLD-1 provides a great buffer between the head unit and amp in the case of amp failure. Often if something in the amp dies and shorts to the input section, the PLD-1 can prevent your head unit from being fried as well.
-IMO, the best use for a PLD-1 is if you own another PG processor such as an EQ215ix for example. With one of these, you can run your 4V head unit into the PLD-1, then boost to 8V, then run to the EQ215ix, and use the outputs of the EQ to cut the voltage down to around 5V and fully drive the amplifiers. This setup will get you the best signal to noise you can on the long RCA run from the head unit to the rear of the vehicle where the most noise is picked up. Anyone running a rear mounted processor should strongly consider a line driver to maximize signal to noise.

Generally a PLD-1 far more useful to anyone with a 2V head unit than they are someone with a 4V model.

[vwdude]

Qnpt sure if this is relevant, but on a 4v out head unit, isn't it true that you get 4v with the volume all the way up? Isn't that into distortion levels? Would it be beneficial to run the amp at a lower volume and then use the line driver to to increase the signal to 4 volts?

I mean, we always talk about the signal level as if it's a fixed value, but in reality it is constantly changing, and at the same volume you would get different voltages at different frequencies.

[Eric D]

Any quality 4V head unit will have no clipping (primary source of distortion) with full volume, and the tone controls set flat.

If a head unit can't do this, I don't personally think it is worth owning.

[zeropoint0.5]

normally the zpa's can handle 8V rms, and the zx could handle up to 6V rms as i remember......

the headunit i used for the test is an oldskool cda 7939r..... so with 4V pre out.....

although i doubt the 4V is rms, i rather believe it is 4V max; so 2V rms i suppose.....

at volume 25 (max 35) the pld1 is around 3 o'clock......

as the author here stated, the gains of the zx450 at half, well with the pld1 in front of it he will

have the same volume but with the gain of the amp totally closed.......

personally, if i have to do a setup with zx amps tomorrow again, i wouldn't do it without at least one

or even 2 pld1's..... based on the positive results i had with it............

for the rest everybody has to try it out for themselves if they would use a line driver or not......

i also did the same tests with M series amps.....i had the best results here straight from the output of

the alpine headunit.....

for the ms series i preferred the tba sytem...version one.......

for the zpa series i preferred the tbat2 transmitter.......

this combo's sounded the best for me personally.......

maybe the marriage of components ?? i don't know.......

doing some tests and tryouts is just a fun part of the whole thing..................

[ajaye]

I mean, we always talk about the signal level as if it's a fixed value, but in reality it is constantly changing, and at the same volume you would get different voltages at different frequencies.

This is, imo, the best way to look at it. Its impossible to say at "X" preamp signal voltage rating feeding the amp input set to "Y" sensitivity you will always make "Z" power with every music source. At least not without putting a hard limiter in the signal chain, which is a terrible idea. Put it this way, one thing we all like about the PG amps is the amount of peak headroom they are known for. Why not give yourself the same buffer with the preamp signal? We perceive loudness based on RMS levels. Using the 4V head unit as an example, its not uncommon for non-pop (and even some older pop) music to be recorded to where you may have a few transients hitting close to the 4V with the head unit volume up but the actual RMS level of the recording wouldn't touch 2V signal strength. Unless you have oscilloscopes for ears you are gonna think you can turn it up more to sound as loud as most music normally does on your system, and you'll end up lopping off those transients before getting to the amp anyway. I'd rather feed the amp the hotter, clean input signal with the amp input less sensitive, these amps will play driven into a small bit of clipping transients no problem (we are talking the difference of fractions of a second), some amps like the ZX may have the headroom to pass it cleanly anyway in most cases so its win-win. Just don't be an idiot with the volume knob basically.

[Mr. Wild]

PG amps are known for headroom yes. Weird thing is I have never seen the numbers. Trust me I have searched but all you see is RMS power measurements all over the place. This is so stupid because when playing music, dynamic power is what matters, not RMS.

[trickyricky]

From what I've read, the headroom for the old PG amps is 3db, this is from what I've read. The source was pretty reliable as the guy knows PG pretty well, like the back of his hand lol.


Hope my friend doesn't mind.

"The Original MS-2250 in black or Nickle were built in the mid 90's and they were tested at 3 DB's above there spec'ed power ratings by independent magazines. That's just at 500 watts RMS unclipped at rated distortion spec per channel at 4 ohm's load. Or 1 Kilo-watt stereo unclipped at 4 ohm's stereo."

[Eric D]

I have posted unclipped output voltage numbers on several older PG amps in different parts of this forum.

The ZX450 for example can do 24V RMS prior to clipping, which would be nearly double the rated power of the amp.

I believe the M50 was also a highly underrated model as well.

[trickyricky]

Am not a mechanic Tiffany, but I can tell you how a cooling system works on most cars/vehicles. The radiator does not do anything mechanical (does not move, does not get any 12vdc so its not electrical), therefore when a radiator fail its usually when its leaking or clogged up. So saying that your radiator "sometimes" works makes no sense, now if the water pump or thermostat are not doing their job then its not the radiators fault, not to mention the fan (if its electrical or clutch) it may also not be working properly. Then on top of that you got temp sensors that could be either faulty or not working at all.

[vwdude]

Am not a mechanic Tiffany, but I can tell you how a cooling system works on most cars/vehicles. The radiator does not do anything mechanical (does not move, does not get any 12vdc so its not electrical), therefore when a radiator fail its usually when its leaking or clogged up. So saying that your radiator "sometimes" works makes no sense, now if the water pump or thermostat are not doing their job then its not the radiators fault, not to mention the fan (if its electrical or clutch) it may also not be working properly. Then on top of that you got temp sensors that could be either faulty or not working at all.

Ricky, I'm pretty sure Tiffany is a fem-bot, or a spammer. She writes a lot of none-sense.

[zeropoint0.5]

Am not a mechanic Tiffany, but I can tell you how a cooling system works on most cars/vehicles. The radiator does not do anything mechanical (does not move, does not get any 12vdc so its not electrical), therefore when a radiator fail its usually when its leaking or clogged up. So saying that your radiator "sometimes" works makes no sense, now if the water pump or thermostat are not doing their job then its not the radiators fault, not to mention the fan (if its electrical or clutch) it may also not be working properly. Then on top of that you got temp sensors that could be either faulty or not working at all.

Ricky, I'm pretty sure Tiffany is a fem-bot, or a spammer. She writes a lot of none-sense.

X 2

it would be better if an admin here takes care of that.............

[trickyricky]

Lol I didn't know they existed, only on Facebook lol. I saw a youtube video of a fellow I subscribed to and he mentioned how FB is fraud and gave some great examples (bots).

[oilworker]

This is all very good info. I have one of the higher end Kenwood Excelon head units that has 5v preouts. That goes to an Audison bit ten. Amps are a zx450 and a zx500. Would I benefit from using a line driver as well? Thanks in advance, Phil.

[vwdude]

What's the voltage output on the bit ten? I know that the new version of the Mosconi DSP is 8v, but my crappy MS8 is only 2.6v, so it can vary for sure. It doesn't really matter what the voltage is going in to the DSP in terms of what the output is (but it does help to have 5v going in to help send a cleaner signal to the DSP).