Help Tuning Ti21300.1 and 2 Ti212D4's @1ohm **I'm a noob**

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Wigzter
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Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:25 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Help Tuning Ti21300.1 and 2 Ti212D4's @1ohm **I'm a noob**

Post by Wigzter »

Hey everyone, my name is Ken and I'll make this short and sweet and to the point.

I'm a noob when it comes to car audio. I'm quickly picking it up but last night I picked up 2 Ti212D4's and a Ti21300.1 amp to go with to replace my Kenwood 500 watt and single Ti212D4.

Hooked everything up, and blew the left side sub. Local audio shop warrantied it since I just bought it yesterday and they tuned it for me.

However, the way they tuned it is so low....I'm pretty sure if an old Chevy Beretta with some stock 6x9's pulled up next to me....I'd get embarrassed.

My amp is at 1377 watts on the birth sheet and both my subs are rated at 600 RMS each. So on paper I should be able to push 1200 watts right?

I bought this upgrade so I could blow the doors off my car without blowing the subs. But it's currently tuned to be quitter than my original setup with only 1 Ti2.

But how do I get that loud obnoxious bass without ruining my amp or subs?

Thanks in advanced and sorry if I don't know proper forum etiquette or lingo.
06 Chevrolet Tahoe
Bose Factory System w/ PAC Line Out Converter
(2) Bose Tweeters
(2) 4" Bose Midranges
(4) 6.5" Bose 4peakers
(1) Ti21300.1 Amplifier on Stinger 4ga Power/Ground
(2) Ti212D4 Subwoofers wired to 1ohm load
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Drock
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Location: Canada

Help Tuning Ti21300.1 and 2 Ti212D4's @1ohm **I'm a noob**

Post by Drock »

There are a few possibilities there. First off I would go back to your installer and express your concerns.
Then if your still not satisfied start doing some troubleshooting.
I've heard many single 12's out perform a pair. It's almost always due to box size.
Also simply adjusting your frequency to a higher crossover point can make a huge difference.
Also make sure If you have crossover adjustments in your H/U that your not using multiple filters.
Kirghiz
Posts: 1013
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:59 pm

Re: Help Tuning Ti21300.1 and 2 Ti212D4's @1ohm **I'm a noob

Post by Kirghiz »

Is the enclosure ported or sealed? If it's sealed you'll kill them quick trying to get "obnoxious bass". One twelve ported will feel like more bass than a pair sealed.

Actually, I don't know what your definition of obnoxious bass is, but for mine you really can't get there on a pair of 12's. I have a pair of Elites running off an Elite.1 and I wouldn't even consider mine obnoxious.
Being loud without good sound quality is pointless, but having good sound quality without being loud is also pointless.
Wigzter
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:25 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Re: Help Tuning Ti21300.1 and 2 Ti212D4's @1ohm **I'm a noob

Post by Wigzter »

Well the installer claims that the boxes he sells are specifically made for the PG Ti2's....so maybe he built them to specs. It's a pretty large ported box.

I also had a friend tell me that now that its tuned correctly...that I should very very slowly turn up the gain just a touch. It was at 50% before, now its roughly about 66%. Bass boost was the same at 50% and I just barely moved it to maybe 60%.

He told me if I don't see the "clipping light" and I like the way it sounds to go ahead and keep it.

So far from the slight adjustments, it's way louder now and there is no flashing "clipping light".

Can someone explain to me please the "clipping light" and also the "Phase" knob? I didn't touch that one.

EDIT: Installer only sells PG and Kicker so I took his word on the box thing.
06 Chevrolet Tahoe
Bose Factory System w/ PAC Line Out Converter
(2) Bose Tweeters
(2) 4" Bose Midranges
(4) 6.5" Bose 4peakers
(1) Ti21300.1 Amplifier on Stinger 4ga Power/Ground
(2) Ti212D4 Subwoofers wired to 1ohm load
Wigzter
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:25 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Re: Help Tuning Ti21300.1 and 2 Ti212D4's @1ohm **I'm a noob

Post by Wigzter »

Kirghiz wrote:Is the enclosure ported or sealed? If it's sealed you'll kill them quick trying to get "obnoxious bass". One twelve ported will feel like more bass than a pair sealed.

Actually, I don't know what your definition of obnoxious bass is, but for mine you really can't get there on a pair of 12's. I have a pair of Elites running off an Elite.1 and I wouldn't even consider mine obnoxious.

Well I guess my definition of obnoxious bass is you know that guy that drives around your subdivision with his system blasting and it shakes the windows in your house.

I don't wanna be that guy, my bass knob goes to 0 when I pull in my neighborhood.....but I just want to be able to have it that loud though when I'm on the roads.
06 Chevrolet Tahoe
Bose Factory System w/ PAC Line Out Converter
(2) Bose Tweeters
(2) 4" Bose Midranges
(4) 6.5" Bose 4peakers
(1) Ti21300.1 Amplifier on Stinger 4ga Power/Ground
(2) Ti212D4 Subwoofers wired to 1ohm load
Kirghiz
Posts: 1013
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:59 pm

Re: Help Tuning Ti21300.1 and 2 Ti212D4's @1ohm **I'm a noob

Post by Kirghiz »

Wigzter wrote: Well I guess my definition of obnoxious bass is you know that guy that drives around your subdivision with his system blasting and it shakes the windows in your house.
You won't get there without at least a pair of 15's ported. A pair of twelves with enough power will be audible for a fair distance, but they won't shake anything more than a couple feet outside the vehicle, even with thousands of watts on them. 15's on the other hand, you can set off car alarms and flex store windows with enough power. Don't get me wrong, 12's make fantastic bass inside the vehicle, and the most diehard basshead will be happy with it. I'm happy with mine. They just don't project outside the vehicle, which is actually a good thing unless you just want to have "obnoxious bass". Most people don't. All it does is say "Please steal me!".

Disclaimer: By "twelves" I am talking about a pair. More than a pair is a different story.
Being loud without good sound quality is pointless, but having good sound quality without being loud is also pointless.
Wigzter
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:25 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Re: Help Tuning Ti21300.1 and 2 Ti212D4's @1ohm **I'm a noob

Post by Wigzter »

@Drock - I don't have a HU, it's all stock up on the receiver and all stock speakers. The installer added a "Line out/in? converter" to give my receiver some RCA's that just runs to the back in the trunk. I really don't know how that works and as far as the frequency thing and crossover points you're talking about, that's also Greek to me lol. But I'll do some research and see if I can figure it out.

@Kirghiz - Ahh ok, so 15's or 3+ 12's to get the obnoxious bass huh? Well at the moment, I'm actually really happy with how the Ti2's turned out sounding. Went for a cruise last night on the interstate and I think I have it adjusted just right now. Maybe...haha. So these 2 Elites and the Elite.1 you have, I naturally had to YouTube them and also checked out the specs on them and I must say...damn! Those things are super sexy but I'm guessing super expensive.

Maybe you can shoot me a PM with the cost of the amp and subs so I can see about how much money I need to save before I can upgrade again. I'm brand new to the PG brand and I can't find MSRP anywhere. Which I get the exclusivity and only getting them at AR's, but then it makes me wonder if I'm getting ripped off or getting a deal when buying PG gear. Because this kinda allows the AR to set the price right? I don't know.

One last question about the Elite subs...Would I be able to put 2 in the trunk of an 08 Honda Accord? I believe it has 14 or 14.5 cube feet of room.

I did see a set of the older Ti Elites (sp?) with the silver face and LED's on Craigslist in Orlando for $550 a pair or $300 ea. They just look awesome and I bet sound even better.
06 Chevrolet Tahoe
Bose Factory System w/ PAC Line Out Converter
(2) Bose Tweeters
(2) 4" Bose Midranges
(4) 6.5" Bose 4peakers
(1) Ti21300.1 Amplifier on Stinger 4ga Power/Ground
(2) Ti212D4 Subwoofers wired to 1ohm load
vwdude
Posts: 1846
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:55 am
Location: So cal

Re: Help Tuning Ti21300.1 and 2 Ti212D4's @1ohm **I'm a noob

Post by vwdude »

Kirghiz wrote:
Wigzter wrote: Well I guess my definition of obnoxious bass is you know that guy that drives around your subdivision with his system blasting and it shakes the windows in your house.
You won't get there without at least a pair of 15's ported. A pair of twelves with enough power will be audible for a fair distance, but they won't shake anything more than a couple feet outside the vehicle, even with thousands of watts on them. 15's on the other hand, you can set off car alarms and flex store windows with enough power. Don't get me wrong, 12's make fantastic bass inside the vehicle, and the most diehard basshead will be happy with it. I'm happy with mine. They just don't project outside the vehicle, which is actually a good thing unless you just want to have "obnoxious bass". Most people don't. All it does is say "Please steal me!".

Disclaimer: By "twelves" I am talking about a pair. More than a pair is a different story.

You are wrong. I've never had bigger than 12s, and only had sealed boxes, and I've beat out 15s in my SPL competition days.

Now, to the OP, first off, he clipping light is referring to a clipped signal. Clipping is one form of distortion, arguably the one most likely to blow your speakers. Usually an amp starts to clip at about 66-75% gain.

What source unit (head unit) are you using? How thick is the power wire that's run? What are he specs on the box (ask the shop, if it's to specs then they should know it)?

A little old school trick, if you want it to be über loud outside then have the subs in opposite phase from each other. It will be quiet inside the car but very loud outside (I never understood why anyone wants this).

One more variable is the ohm rating. Your subs are d4 (dual 4 ohms) so each sub is either 2 or 8 ohms. Since you have 2 subs, your options end up as 4 or 1 ohms. The specs do claim that at 1 ohm it gives 1300 watts. So the ohm load isnt a problem.

You mentioned that you didn't mess with the phase. It's possible that in phase your subs are canceling with itself. Try adjusting the phase slowly to see if it improves. I usually don't use the bass boost, so I'd leave it at 0.
A few of these and a few of those.
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Wigzter
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:25 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Re: Help Tuning Ti21300.1 and 2 Ti212D4's @1ohm **I'm a noob

Post by Wigzter »

@vwdude - Thanks for the input! I guess I really don't know what you mean by them canceling each other out in phase. Like what exactly am I listening for when I play with the Phase?

And yes, I'm running both subs wired to a 1ohm load. I guess I will call and ask him what the specs are of the boxes he builds. I will tell you that it's really heavy and has a nice sized vent port in the middle.

Okay, so is it safe to say that if I don't see the clipping light, my subs shouldn't blow?

I'm running Stinger 4ga wire for power and ground. I installed that myself by just following the existing old power and ground wires. I am extremely impressed with the Ti21300.1 amp because with my Kenwood 500watt mono block on 8ga power/ground wiring, when I turned up the sound, my headlights went disco on me and went in and out with the beat of the song lol.

With the PG Ti21300.1 amp, my headlights or dashlights haven't even stuttered. I LOVE that!

I don't have a head unit. Just a stock cd player and stock speakers in my 08 Honda Accord. Which are actually really good and unless I upgrade my subs to something even louder, I don't think I'll need to replace them because they can keep up with the loudness of the subs and still play crystal clear.
06 Chevrolet Tahoe
Bose Factory System w/ PAC Line Out Converter
(2) Bose Tweeters
(2) 4" Bose Midranges
(4) 6.5" Bose 4peakers
(1) Ti21300.1 Amplifier on Stinger 4ga Power/Ground
(2) Ti212D4 Subwoofers wired to 1ohm load
vwdude
Posts: 1846
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:55 am
Location: So cal

Re: Help Tuning Ti21300.1 and 2 Ti212D4's @1ohm **I'm a noob

Post by vwdude »

Just because you dont see a clipping light doesn't mean you aren't running a distorted signal through your amp. Clipping is just one type of distortion. Running a cheap line level converter could also induce noise or distortion. Don't use those light to tune your amp.

The light don't dim because the new amp is a class d. Class d is much more efficient than class a/b which is likely what the kenwood was. Phoenix gold is also a much better built amp than kenwood, but the evidence is in the quality of sound, not the lack of dimming lights.
A few of these and a few of those.
Creator of www.phoenixgoldregistry.com
hit me up to add your limited edition amps.
Kirghiz
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Re: Help Tuning Ti21300.1 and 2 Ti212D4's @1ohm **I'm a noob

Post by Kirghiz »

vwdude wrote: You are wrong. I've never had bigger than 12s, and only had sealed boxes, and I've beat out 15s in my SPL competition days.
Hitting a higher number on a meter in a competition =/= rattling store windows and setting off car alarms. "Obnoxious bass" and the OP's definition of it has nothing to do with SPL inside the vehicle. You might be able to find a pair of 12's that will do hair tricks and move ridiculous air, DD Z's perhaps, but PG doesn't make any that'll do it.

The msrp on the Elite.1 is $1299 and the Elite 12's are $399. Fwiw about the 1300.1 though, that amp should be making closer to 1500 watts rms, and it'll give the Ti 12's all they can handle.
Being loud without good sound quality is pointless, but having good sound quality without being loud is also pointless.
vwdude
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Location: So cal

Re: Help Tuning Ti21300.1 and 2 Ti212D4's @1ohm **I'm a noob

Post by vwdude »

I just remember when I had my pair of treo 12s I was sitting in my car outside my install bay and one of the other installers was inside and he said that he felt the ground and heard the install bay doors (closed) making the most noise he had ever heard. I'd say that qualifies. Of course not PG subs.
A few of these and a few of those.
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hit me up to add your limited edition amps.
Wigzter
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Location: Tampa, FL

Re: Help Tuning Ti21300.1 and 2 Ti212D4's @1ohm **I'm a noob

Post by Wigzter »

I really wish that one of you two were in Tampa, Florida so I could see how you tune it. My installer wont crank mine up for warranty reasons.

I have it pretty loud right now at the moment, but my ears are in tune like I'm sure you two are to listen for distortion.

Basically what I want is to have my subs pushing 85-90% of what they can handle. And right now, I have no clue exactly where I'm at.
06 Chevrolet Tahoe
Bose Factory System w/ PAC Line Out Converter
(2) Bose Tweeters
(2) 4" Bose Midranges
(4) 6.5" Bose 4peakers
(1) Ti21300.1 Amplifier on Stinger 4ga Power/Ground
(2) Ti212D4 Subwoofers wired to 1ohm load
Kirghiz
Posts: 1013
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:59 pm

Re: Help Tuning Ti21300.1 and 2 Ti212D4's @1ohm **I'm a noob

Post by Kirghiz »

Wigzter wrote: Basically what I want is to have my subs pushing 85-90% of what they can handle.
You don't want to be there for a few weeks. Subs need to break in a bit before you really start pushing them. That said, what music are you playing on them? Go and download this track from somewhere (itunes or wherever) and play it through your subs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJwciI_hUFA

In a large ported box, with the amp settings in a respectable range, that track should be firmly vibrating small items (change, keys, drink bottle, maybe a cell phone) in your console with your set up.
The factory head unit may be limiting the SPL you can achieve as well by feeding a weaker signal to the amp than you would get from an aftermarket head unit. I'd look into upgrading your factory radio next if that track isn't that impressive.
Being loud without good sound quality is pointless, but having good sound quality without being loud is also pointless.
Wigzter
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:25 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Re: Help Tuning Ti21300.1 and 2 Ti212D4's @1ohm **I'm a noob

Post by Wigzter »

I use Rhapsody on my iPhone mostly listen to Dubstep mixes and a lot of hip hop and even pop depending on my mood. Skrillex, Mojo , Young Jeezy and Rick Ross are a few favorites along with some Usher too.

I downloaded the track you linked to my playlist and will check it out tomorrow for sure. I always love new suggestions for songs that have good beats to them.
06 Chevrolet Tahoe
Bose Factory System w/ PAC Line Out Converter
(2) Bose Tweeters
(2) 4" Bose Midranges
(4) 6.5" Bose 4peakers
(1) Ti21300.1 Amplifier on Stinger 4ga Power/Ground
(2) Ti212D4 Subwoofers wired to 1ohm load
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Drock
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Re: Help Tuning Ti21300.1 and 2 Ti212D4's @1ohm **I'm a noob

Post by Drock »

I did a 140db the other day with a pair of elite12d4 in a sealed 1cuft ea under the seat enclosure downfiring. That is plenty loud enough.
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Keep adjusting, you'll get it there.


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Wigzter
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:25 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Re: Help Tuning Ti21300.1 and 2 Ti212D4's @1ohm **I'm a noob

Post by Wigzter »

That's a really good lookin setup. When I figure out how to upload pictures I'll show ya mine. I got the pics but when I get home from work I'll take time to check it out!

Being relatively new to car audio, I don't know if I know how loud 140db is but it seems impressive!!
06 Chevrolet Tahoe
Bose Factory System w/ PAC Line Out Converter
(2) Bose Tweeters
(2) 4" Bose Midranges
(4) 6.5" Bose 4peakers
(1) Ti21300.1 Amplifier on Stinger 4ga Power/Ground
(2) Ti212D4 Subwoofers wired to 1ohm load
vwdude
Posts: 1846
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:55 am
Location: So cal

Re: Help Tuning Ti21300.1 and 2 Ti212D4's @1ohm **I'm a noob

Post by vwdude »

Back in the day I hit 136 with that setup that I mentioned above. It rattled the steel install bay door, so 140 is crazy loud (to my standards).
A few of these and a few of those.
Creator of www.phoenixgoldregistry.com
hit me up to add your limited edition amps.
Wigzter
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:25 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Re: Help Tuning Ti21300.1 and 2 Ti212D4's @1ohm **I'm a noob

Post by Wigzter »

Alright!! I figured out how to upload my pics haha. Here's my install, did all the wiring myself. Except I didn't have a crimper so had the wires crimped for me lol :D

Now that I'm looking at these pics....I may take the RCA's and poke another little hole and run them like the speaker wires. I'm still new so cut me some slack!
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06 Chevrolet Tahoe
Bose Factory System w/ PAC Line Out Converter
(2) Bose Tweeters
(2) 4" Bose Midranges
(4) 6.5" Bose 4peakers
(1) Ti21300.1 Amplifier on Stinger 4ga Power/Ground
(2) Ti212D4 Subwoofers wired to 1ohm load
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