Think I have a phase issue...

[Blad09]

I've tried switching polarity of each side at the amp (components up front) and on sub, but no change. When I fade out the front my subs sound so much better. Do I need to do the switch at the crossover? Eg just a woofer/tweeter? 6" comps up front, two 12" subs in ext cab pickup. If more info is needed lmk. Everything is back to pos-pos, neg-neg now but if I have to get into my doors and try each woofer and tweeter I will. Thanks!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ttocs]

polarity problems can be difficult to recognize until you get to trouble shoot them a couple of times. You said it sounds better when you fade to the front which leads me to believe its possibly just a slight difference in the signal rather then polarity especially since you say you swapped them. Noticing that your 6s and your 12s are out of phase is difficult and honestly if your 6s are messing up the way your 12s sound then there might be a bigger problem. If you had the same comps front/rear and you noticed when you faded front/rear that the bass sounded more prominent then I would say phasing. I have noticed as well on some head units when you fade to the front with only the front speakers hooked up that it seems to clean things up. Can't tell you why just know it sounded a little bit better.

[Blad09]

I dont have rear speaker. When I fade to the rear, essentially turning the front comps all the way down, the subs just sound so clean and smooth. I lose some of that when the fronts are up to volume with the subs. Could it just be because its in a truck cab? I dont think the comps are out of phase with eachother as I dont get any change when balancing left to right. Thanks for your thoughts ttocs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[vwdude]

Couple of questions...
Are you running one amp for everything (4 channel with comps on front 2 channels and sub on bridged rear?)? And how is it all connected to the deck? Does the deck have front/rear/sub or just 2 of those or is there LOC on a factory deck?

[Blad09]

Alpine h/u. Front to zx250 on comps. Sub out to x600.1 on subs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Blad09]

I can go into more detail about the system when I'm not at work but thats the just of it. Pld and basscube are in front of xenon amp


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wooferdog]

What are your crossover points set at ?

[Blad09]

Fronts are highpass 80hz from h/u zx250 on bypass, sub is 70ish on the xenon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wooferdog]

I would lower the sub to 55 and try 100-120 on the top end and see how that sounds.

[Blad09]

Cool I'll try that tonight. Also thought about full pass from h/u and using the zx xover. So couple things to try. Will update after. Thanks guys!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Blad09]

I switched the hpf on the h/u to 120hz but haven't done the amps yet as I have to remove the box to get to them. That will be this wknd. It definitely helped tho. Sounds better already.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ttocs]

I would lower the sub to 55 and try 100-120 on the top end and see how that sounds.

Isn't this going to leave a gap between 55-100 hz that isn't played?

[Blad09]

Hmm, good point. Guess theres only one way to find out tho


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wooferdog]

I would lower the sub to 55 and try 100-120 on the top end and see how that sounds.

Isn't this going to leave a gap between 55-100 hz that isn't played?

It might if the sub amp gain is low but when you turn up the sub volume to match up with the highs its pretty close to no gap at all.

[Blad09]

Ok I set hp to 120 from h/u, and lpf on the xenon slowly down to 50ish. The hpf setting helped a bit but lowering the lpf I lost some kick that I like. So lpf back to 70 and I am now using the zx hpf at 100hz as thats where it sounds best to me. But... I still feel like my subs sound much better when the comps arent playing. Hoping to get some time today to try some different polarities on the components and maybe that will help. Thanks for suggestions so far!!! Will report results.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ajaye]

Crossover summing is a huge pain sometimes. Without looking up specifics on all your gear, the first thing I would try is using one device to handle crossover duties for both high and low pass. Using 2 different crossover alignments will cause numerous response issues in your stop bands and will be almost impossible to sum correctly without additional processing. Rolloff rate is just as important, if the H/U is 24db per and xenon is 12db per for instance, even if you match up your -6db point the rest of your stop band won't be phase coherent or sum properly. The ZX uses a 24db per octave crossover, that I know, and I assume L/R alignment. Send a full range signal to the ZX, set its speakers outputs to high pass at 70ish, set the AUX out to lowpass and feed the Xenon from the ZX AUX output. I know that's rarely ideal from a convenience/functional standpoint, but if you notice a marked improvement, you at least know what you're dealing with and where you can go from there. Either that or run both amps in bypass and filter at the H/U. Digital processing allows for a much more ideal filter hypothetically, but its always head unit/equipment dependent.

[ttocs]

I really don't think its a phase issue myself. I remember in one of my first stereos in my regular cab ranger I had that little kenwood 5 band eq going to a pair of subs in back and a pair of 6" componants up front. I remember that if I faded to the rear speaker outputs on the eq(where nothing was hooked up) the bass from the subs would get cleaner and slightly louder.

If you really want to test for phase issue disconnect the subs and then see if you get more bass when you balance the signal to one side or the. If the bass volume stays the same then they are in phase. Now if your subs were out of phase from one another obviously you would know already. And again I will say that if your subs and your 6's are out of phase the chance
of noticing it is very very hard. Think of all the amps/eq's/cross overs that had a sub phase switch on it with the instructions to flip it one way, flip it the other and see which sounds better.

Now like I said above though I have listened to more then a couple of stereos that when you faded to the speakers not playing that it would clean up the signal in the speakers still playing In fact I remember now with that kenwood eq that the sub bass sounded better if it was faded to either the front speakers that did play or the rear that did not and when it was in the middle it was just a little muddier signal. I would be more likely to consider it just something in the processing of the signal that maybe when its split between all 4 speakers(even though 2 outputs are not playing) that somehow makes it muddier either from interference internally or possibly from just having to split the eq's power(not wattage just the voltage that powers it obviously) between 4 outputs.