vwdude wrote:Eric, I have always had your opinion. His company is sending me a set of 6 opamps to try out on an amp (MQ-430). It won't be a true a-b test but I figured it's worth a listen. If the improvement is worth the $70 each then I should be able to hear the difference. If the sound is not improved then no harm/no foul I didn't pay for them, and if it's worse then I'll just go back to my burr brown opamps.
I have 430 that needs the caps replaced could sent it to you I will pay for the caps if you change them out for the a and b test. No mods to my amp and you mod your amp.
Thank you for the offer. I was unable to get the Burson audio opamps into the 430 because two of them are too close together and the Burson opamps are too big.
That being said, I have 2 ms-275s, 1 already had burr brown opamps and sockets installed to I've already swapped opamps to Burson. I just haven't had time to test them.
A few of these and a few of those.
Creator of www.phoenixgoldregistry.com
hit me up to add your limited edition amps.
$70 a piece sure sound like a lot of money to risk the swap not working, or the swap damaging the amplifier, or it sounds the same as before, or horror of horrors, it sounds worse than before!
Eric, you make a very sound argument. I'm actually a little uneasy about my test now, but i still plan to proceed, just with caution.
My only issue with your argument is this, for every argument you have at least two sides. I can find people who will validate my claim, no matter what it is. If I searched hard enough I could find someone who can measure the improvements that these opamps make. I personally choose to consider both sides and try to have an open mind when forming my own opinion.
Part of me wants these opamps to work. The idea that there's someone I can swap in to my amps to make them super SQ amps is great. It's always nice to know that you can put a Bentley motor into your Chevy, whether you can afford to or not.
Part of me doesn't want this to work. Well less that I don't want it to work and more that I don't think there will be an audible difference. Just as that email said (that as posted by Jason), maybe if you upgrade all caps, opamps, and maybe output transistors you'll hear a slight difference. I don't expect these to be a huge difference, but if a combination of Inge can be done and you can hear an improvement (no matter how slight) then I'll be kind of surprised.
A few of these and a few of those.
Creator of www.phoenixgoldregistry.com
hit me up to add your limited edition amps.
Oh but I can share one thing, the MS line and the ZPA line share a lot of the same components, but the ZPA does not use opamps and it does use wima caps. Just food for thought.
A few of these and a few of those.
Creator of www.phoenixgoldregistry.com
hit me up to add your limited edition amps.
I have dug all over and I cannot find any measurements dealing with better sounding op-amps. I am not saying the measurements don't exist, just I am not finding any online. I do find plenty of audiophile jargon, like this op-amp is "darker", or "forward", which sadly we cannot measure.
Humans can only detect something like 5% distortion (off the top of my head. Please feel free to find exact numbers and post them). Speakers are around 3% or so. Most amplifiers are 0.01% distortion. I doubt changing op-amps will take that distortion down to 0.005%, but let's just say it does even better by taking it down to 0.001%. I just don't see anyone hearing a difference between 3.01% and 3.001% when the threshold is 5%.
Also, we all need to realize there is a good chance these op-amps are actually worse than the stock ones. Due to mismatched discrete components, and the other loads they place on the amplifier's original (tuned) circuit, I am pretty confident these devices are actually much worse than stock. If you put a high enough price on something, SOMEONE will take the plunge...
Got "schooled" by member shawn k on May 10th, 2011...
No longer really "in tune" with the audio industry, and probably have not been for some time.
Hands down the forum's most ignorant member...
Don't even know what Ohm's law is...
I understand everyone's comments. To explain, you know those black, thin, cheap RCA cables that come with electronics. Well, install them on your sound system. Now listen to a detailed song over and over so that you know the sound really well. Now, put an expensive set of RCA's on. Now listen to that very same song... This is what those Burson Op Amps do. It has nothing to do with S/N ratio, but the sound.
the very first stystem I installed used nothing but the very best that radii shack to. Not sure when but down the road I wanted to upgrade so I sold the 6.5" bazooks to a single jl8. Proir to doing all that I upgraded all my power and signal wires. No shit 4 mins later when my friend got in he asked if it I had another amp
what else can I say I am a grumpy asshole most of the time.
Virtue wrote:I understand everyone's comments. To explain, you know those black, thin, cheap RCA cables that come with electronics. Well, install them on your sound system. Now listen to a detailed song over and over so that you know the sound really well. Now, put an expensive set of RCA's on. Now listen to that very same song... This is what those Burson Op Amps do. It has nothing to do with S/N ratio, but the sound.
Any chance we can rent one or two of these to a-b
what else can I say I am a grumpy asshole most of the time.
I still have some of those cheap thin RCAs that come with electronics (I tend to not throw anything away). They don't sound any different than the nice ones I have.
What is better with the more expensive ones is they have more durable connectors that fit nicer, and their thicker jacket is a lot harder to damage if you drop something on them or get them caught up in something.
Until you get to probably 20ft or more, a cheap RCA will sound the same as a nice one.
If anyone does not believe me, I suggest they try it. Use the longest cheap junk RCA cable you can find (not a damaged one, but one that is fully functional). Insert it in your system anywhere using a pair of female to female adapters. Listen to see if your system sounds worse. If you wrap it around a power wire in your car, or an AC cord in your home stereo, it will help increase the effect. Post your results here.
Got "schooled" by member shawn k on May 10th, 2011...
No longer really "in tune" with the audio industry, and probably have not been for some time.
Hands down the forum's most ignorant member...
Don't even know what Ohm's law is...
Well like I said I did it and it fooled me and a friend that had no idea I did it. IT really wasn't hard to tell either but we were going from a cheap radio shack crap to some nicer thicker super audio cable. friend that got tino the truck was pissed off that he thought I got a new system
So while I know righcard clark has said for years and heck even you they same but at some point there should be a difference?
what else can I say I am a grumpy asshole most of the time.
I thought you upgraded your power and signal wires? If an amplifier is running off too small of a power wire, upgrading it to a correct sized one will have a larger impact than replacing an RCA cable would. When you choke the supply of current to an amplifier it radically affects its power supply's performance, and you would likely hear this in the form of distortion, or even lack of control over the speakers. I have personally worked with systems where adding a 1 farad capacitor improved the sound of the bass in the system. These were systems were the power cable was right at the limit of being too small, and the capacitor helped to keep the internal power supply of the amplifier more stable. Does this work in all systems? No, it does not. When the conditions are right, certain upgrades can make a big difference.
Now, if you just replaced the RCA cable and it was better, I am not going to call you a lair. I am going to take a guess though, that the original RCA was really that bad. Either beyond cheap, or compromised in some way (internal corrosion is a good example). I have found bad RCAs that otherwise looked good, and when cut apart, the shield had turned green from internal corrosion. An RCA such as this is likely going to sound bad.
I once bought a $500 home CD player (Sony ES model), and it included a cheap RCA cable. I have used that very same cable in different places over the years, and it still sounds just fine. I just cannot see Sony including a bad sounding cable with their equipment when you purchase it. Why would they risk lowering their reputation over an included item?
Got "schooled" by member shawn k on May 10th, 2011...
No longer really "in tune" with the audio industry, and probably have not been for some time.
Hands down the forum's most ignorant member...
Don't even know what Ohm's law is...
I can see why *some* people might get obsessed with the incredibly microscopic differences in home audio. At least at home the acoustics should be closer to ideal, it will be much closer to being silent, you can close your eyes and really focus properly.
However in a car, which is noisy as hell in comparison (even with deadening), plus with all the negative issues of an installation (even the best ones - compared to home audio), I think worrying about OP amps is a little insane - in the real world.
Chill out. enjoy the driving. Enjoy your tunes. No need to get hyper obsessive
