Phoenix Gold Phorum

The balancing act setup vs high end RCAs for the head unit to the gear in the back.. which would you people use/prefer? Pros cons?

I just might have the choice in using either the balancing act setup OR my 5 meter long QLX quadralink cables ... wondering which one to use. Or to add another variable, or choice, in my dilemma, I would be using a PLD1 to up my signal to 5volts to my Audison Bit One(5V is max rated RCA input, as is all Audison gear). My Kenwood Excelon deck has "4V preouts"(we all know how that's rated.. max distortion.. blah blah blah.. likely less than 4v).

While I'm at it, asking for related information, would using a line driver AFTER the Bit One be pointless? Thought just occurred to me.. output on the bitone would be 5v, could bump it up to 8 for the M amps.. I'm thinking it's a waste of time, but thought I'd ask for shits and giggles.

Or use nothing but my QLX cables, and call it a day?

There's always trial and error - I could try all my different setup options when the time comes, but I'd rather save the time if I'd be wasting it and not knowing it ahead of time lol. As mentioned, some of you are a little more in the know in all this.. I've been out of the loop for 2 decades!

personally I think that more stuff in the signal path can add more trouble so going through the transmitter and receiver on the balancing act is just two extra steps. But eric has said he could hear the difference in the balanced signal and just rcas and I trust him so not exactly sure what to recomend.

as for the line driver I would think that after the bit one would be the better location. Before it is not going to get you a hotter signal out. If you need a tld66 hit me up I have one for sale.

I asked a car audio veteran here local to me..he suggested using the balancing act.

I have two pld1s. ..one for the front stage and one for the sub.. and running them after the bit one sounds like a good idea? That's nice to know

Anybody else with input?



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I am pretty sure no matter how hot the input is on the eq that it will still have the same output but I am not for sure on it. If I am not mistaken the balancing act boosts the voltage just now sure to what level. I would just hook it up as normal and if you have more power then I would put it after myself.

I am confused as to how many amps/channels you are running as you would need one transmitter/reciever for each channel. In this case teh line driver would be easier with only one piece in one place.

Line driver, or balancing act, there's gonna be at least one "piece" up front.

The Audison accepts up to 5v, and dishes out what it gets.

It's more of a toying idea than not, in using line drivers AFTER the Audison... all PG stuff takes 8V inputs.

Either:

- FR/FL/SUB to the back via RCAs(the QLXs) and keep my deck sub controls
- FR/FL/SUB off an Audio Control Matrix to the back with QLXs and keep my deck sub controls(I'd waste a pair of channels in using a 6 channel line driver this way, but leaves me with 2 PLD1s for the back.. all PG, no Audio Control in the mix)
- FR/FL/SUB off 2 PLD1s with QLXs to the back and keep my deck sub controls
- FR/FL using the balancing act and lose the deck sub controls.

I'm going to install an M25/tweeters, M50/4"mids, M100/6.5"mids and an MS2125 for the sub. That's if the dash pods I got from Mike will be used, if not, subtract the 4"s and M50 from the setup.

I have the balancing act, a 6ch Audio Control Matrix and 2 PLD1s.

I could go balancing act to the Audison, out the Audison to the Matrix for the front stage and a PLD1 for the sub. That's if doing the line driver thing AFTER the Audison is even worth it. Might be a good idea, might not be. Just fetching ideas/information before the build starts this spring. There's gonna be an epicenter and a cube in all that wiring too.

But at the very least, I think I want to send the 5volts to the Audison.. even if my deck has 4V preouts.. which most do these days, but how good of a 4V are they really?

With all that going on down the signal chain, don't forget to turn off your internal amplifier in your headunit as most Kenwood Excelon decks have this option. Makes a noticeable difference to us tinkering types... or at least I'd like to think so. By the way, go balanced install this time just so you can make the A/B comparison on your own and not have to listen other peoples opinion on what " true audiophiles" do. I believe there is valid pros and cons on both sides but what impressed me about my most recent balanced install is the absence of signal noise in the background. This becomes really obvious in the dead space in between tracks. Having said all that, good luck with whatever you choose because it's going to sound exceptional no matter what due to the great components you have in place already.

I don't remember the option of turning the internal amp off in the Kenwood deck... but if no speakers are connected to the leads, wouldn't that be 'enough'? Maybe I'll upgrade the deck later on.. for now, it suits my needs. But that may change after all this gear goes in.

I plan on powering/grounding everything off of the 2 power leads from the battery to the gear, HU included. Which is what I've read is the better way to do it. I don't think I'll have issues from that aspect of things.

I worked at one shop in Scottsdale that when we did a full stereo we would twist/wrap the remote turn on along with a constant and ground and run them back to the amps/dist blocks so they were all powered from the same point. I can't say that there was ever a time that I sat in amazement at the sound quality of one of the systems we made being that much better then any other system I have done traditional wiring on. I can say I never chased any noise issues but I rarely had any issues with traditional wiring.

As for hearing a difference with the decks amp off I do seem to remember one deck that I can't remember what type that had this option and there was a slight difference.

As for hearing a difference with the decks amp off I do seem to remember one deck that I can't remember what type that had this option and there was a slight difference.[/quote]

It's usually in the small print at the end of the manual but my last two definitely had a "defeatable" option. "Slight" is noticeable to someone with a sickness like myself
I am old school and believe that less in the signal path is always better and let your components (amp, speakers, subwoofers, cables, wiring, etc...) shine through... Your so deeply invested at the end of an install why not take the extra step and eliminate distorted watts coming from a head unit.

I never noticed the signal distorting with the amp on it. I think it was just a little mass/mid bass and the difference was VERY slight. I too agree less in the signal path is better which is why I am struggling with this post so much as I think the TBA and the line driver is just more opportunity to introduce noise. I would throw the line driver behind the processor if you think you need it.

If by Eric, you mean me, I don't think I ever claimed to hear a difference between a balanced and unbalanced cable. In some cases, I would guess, myself (or nearly anyone) would hear a difference in the level of "hiss" in the background. The main goal of balanced is to improve signal to noise (less hiss).

I also agree, less is more when it comes to stuff in the signal path.

I would run the head unit without anything else to your bit one (I am assuming the bit one is installed in the rear of the vehicle). If you don't like the background noise, then you need to try something else. I would start with a PLD-1. If that does not work, then consider a TBAT setup.

Every eXcelon deck I have tested did 4V or better with no clipping at full output. Some models that come to mind are KDC-X911, KDC-X917, and I currently use a KDC-X889. I cannot comment on any unit newer than the KDC-X889.

Going from 4V to 8V is not going to make a huge difference in noise rejection. The inherent noise rejection of a balanced system, can though.

Also, M series amps clip with 8V input. I think when I tested it, they only accept about 3V prior to clipping. So, you won't need anything between your bit one and your M series amps. (keep in mind, 2V was the norm back when these amps were being made).

I have modified M series amps for members here, to accept 8V inputs prior to clipping. If the bit one is only a few feet from the M series amps, I don't really think there would be any benefit to this modification.

I thought the old ones were like that but never tested one myself to be sure. I think we have all just got use to throwing a line driver on it just cause...

Not that it just occurred to me.. but if I purchased a deck that had an optical digital output... since I have an Audison Bit One, that has such connections.. wouldn't that be the best scenario? I think so, but, it's finding a deck with digital output that's the "issue".. they're few and far between! I have RCAs, line drivers, tba's etc etc on hand, but no digital out'd deck. And I just bought my Kenwood last summer... didn't plan on the Audison route then, because I wouldn't of bought the Kenwood.

Anybody got suggestions for such decks off hand? My only requirement for a deck would be an auxiliary input at a minimum, bluetooth and usb inputs preferred, but optional.. haven't looked hard core yet for this optical deck option yet.

I think the alpine 7949 has digital out. But it's an old school sq h/u with ienet, need changer to play recorded disks.

Coaxial digital input is just as good as optical. So, if you have that in both items it would work as well.

The Bit One has both inputs.. its got all inputs.. it's sick

I agree, the coaxial or toslink is good in my books. Just need to find a deck that has digital outputs. Some of the alpine stuff is fussy as in you need an extra module/adapter in order to adjust the volume. Some units won't sluff the USB files digital stuff through the digital output.. from what I've read so far.

Kind of hard to fetch a deck.. bit of work to search and find one. Found a JVC line that has the digital outputs, but has limitations in other features.

Tap into the internal guts on a deck you like send the digital signal to the bit-one, and then buy a remote volume control for up front.

Zapco amps have the "Symbilink" feature what's that? Digital coax? Optical? Never quite understood what it truly was but then again I never spent much time with their products.

Eric D wrote:Tap into the internal guts on a deck you like send the digital signal to the bit-one, and then buy a remote volume control for up front.

An option, but not one that I "could" do myself easily... that's one of the issues with some of the aftermarket decks.. needing a control module of sorts for the volume or something. The Bit One's DRC has and can be the volume control when using a digital signal. And now that you mention it, it might actually be the only way to do the digital input volume control using the Bit One. Hmm.. I'll go print off the manual and read up on it ahead of time... perhaps before I go and buy a deck and get a surprise hehehe.

Bchester6 wrote:Zapco amps have the "Symbilink" feature what's that? Digital coax? Optical? Never quite understood what it truly was but then again I never spent much time with their products.

Best way I could describe the symbilink is this.. it's like PG's balancing act. High voltage balanced signal.. something like 16 volts. You'd use RCA outs from the deck, to symbilink stuff, ending in the amps. I looked at that stuff too.. I like Zapco products.. top 5 in my books.

I'm leaning towards the digital front to back.. just need to read the Bit One manual now.

Yes, all that Symbilink is, is a balanced setup, using their own small keyboard style connector. I would not doubt if you could make a harness to adapt a PG TBAT to a Symbilink receiver (like in a Zapco amp), or the other way around. It would all depend on what voltage the Symbilink and PG setups are at.

Symbilink also caries power for Zapco processors, so if anyone did ever use it with other brand stuff, the would need to make sure they don't use the power pins in their custom harness.

So Eric, you obviously are tech savvy when it comes to these sorts of things and very knowledgeable at that. What is your preference for a setup? Balance? Optical? Low level? I don't claim to know much but my current system which is a full balanced input output configuration seems to be the cleanest and sonically pleasing set up I've had to date. To the point where I am only choosing amplifiers and accessories that transmit and accept balanced signals. I guess that's why I am seeking older Xtant products..

My approach to everything is generally "simple and cheap".

I would install a system, and then listen too it. If I never heard any hiss, I would leave it as is. If however, I did hear some hiss in the system, I would install a line driver first to reduce it. If that did not work to my requirement, I would then remove the line driver and try a balanced system.

I have learned over the years that nothing goes exactly as planned. I just don't see the point in trying to plan out 100% of a system like a lot of people do. Instead, buy the foundation parts to a system, install them, and then start "tweaking" as needs and budget allow.

Amen, it's a game of misses with every install and "perfection" is rare so it's a matter of subtle compromises. Maybe it's just me but I have never had an install go exactly the way I planned it out in my head.