I need to know if I can take the dome lamps out as I'm driving these speakers with a very powerful amp.
do any body have the schematic on the elite crossver?
do any body have the schematic on the elite crossver?
I need to know if the blue lights in it are for tweeter protect and what are the wattage on them. noticed I have a 12v 20watts courtesy dome lamp (part 211 at the auto parts store) in series with it (along with a passive eq circuit).
I need to know if I can take the dome lamps out as I'm driving these speakers with a very powerful amp.
I need to know if I can take the dome lamps out as I'm driving these speakers with a very powerful amp.
Hi there, That sure is a big Rockford four channel amp, Yes sir I will agree with you there. And it cost a lot of money too.
The blue LEDS are just visual indicators only And I have seen the circuit that drives them and its not a protection circuit.
The Elite crossovers are built to take power and channel it appropriately for TI Elite speakers only, although they can be used on other drivers I am sure PG never intended for them to drive anything other than Ti Elites.
I don't really think anyone here can answer your question honestly as they would be possibly guessing at whatever it is you have hooked up to these, as i am now looking at your pics closely I don't recognize any of the drivers except the autobahn bass drivers.
Are you trying to use the TI elite crossovers without the elites, and possibly your own hand picked drivers ???
And Are you trying to run a 951 system without using the PG spec'ed drivers????
I know for a fact that the TI Elite crossovers DO NOT have dome light lamps inside them so could you be specific as to your usage of them here in this setup ??? I have seen them before in Kicker Passives of years gone by, But I don't recall them in any other car setup except the Kickers and maybe some older Infinity's but that was a long time ago
Forgive all my questions I am just at a loss of understanding whats the setup is here, And i do know for sure that the lamp inline question is not a completely understood item. please elaborate if you will about this setup to us and me and i will see if i can actually have some semblance of reasoning for a answer for you.
The blue LEDS are just visual indicators only And I have seen the circuit that drives them and its not a protection circuit.
The Elite crossovers are built to take power and channel it appropriately for TI Elite speakers only, although they can be used on other drivers I am sure PG never intended for them to drive anything other than Ti Elites.
I don't really think anyone here can answer your question honestly as they would be possibly guessing at whatever it is you have hooked up to these, as i am now looking at your pics closely I don't recognize any of the drivers except the autobahn bass drivers.
Are you trying to use the TI elite crossovers without the elites, and possibly your own hand picked drivers ???
And Are you trying to run a 951 system without using the PG spec'ed drivers????
I know for a fact that the TI Elite crossovers DO NOT have dome light lamps inside them so could you be specific as to your usage of them here in this setup ??? I have seen them before in Kicker Passives of years gone by, But I don't recall them in any other car setup except the Kickers and maybe some older Infinity's but that was a long time ago
Forgive all my questions I am just at a loss of understanding whats the setup is here, And i do know for sure that the lamp inline question is not a completely understood item. please elaborate if you will about this setup to us and me and i will see if i can actually have some semblance of reasoning for a answer for you.
Have you tried a Zobel filter to properly set the crossover tuning for this sort of setup.
I believe I understand your use of the "tweeter protector lamp" but you must understand that it induces its own set of issues when in this sort of circuit. Such as when the lamp lights up its resistance changes and so the entire circuit load characteristics change with the power level being feed to it. This in turn will alter the overall operation of the speaker and alters the sound character of the driver, and output levels.
I am a fan of ribbons and all that but have found them not be durable enough to withstand the auto environment. I have a couple sets of Emits in front of me just to experiment with, as I have off and on used them myself since the mid 80's
Thanks for your explanation of the lamp usage in your setup, I was wondering about that. I personally remove all tweeter protection schemes from my passives, as I run a large enough mids and highs amp (200 watts per) that I never induce clipping which IMHO causes the majority of tweeter failure. And i have not yet damaged a tweeter with this scheme.
Although in the past i have seen and done my share of damage before finally getting a large enough amp to prevent clipped power from being sent to my drivers.
Oh a FYI you can find Emits on E-bay all day long including replacement ribbon elements for these types of ribbons, they are not cheap, but I believe thats because they feel they have a captive buying crowd.
What else is the elite crossover driving besides the Emits?
I believe I understand your use of the "tweeter protector lamp" but you must understand that it induces its own set of issues when in this sort of circuit. Such as when the lamp lights up its resistance changes and so the entire circuit load characteristics change with the power level being feed to it. This in turn will alter the overall operation of the speaker and alters the sound character of the driver, and output levels.
I am a fan of ribbons and all that but have found them not be durable enough to withstand the auto environment. I have a couple sets of Emits in front of me just to experiment with, as I have off and on used them myself since the mid 80's
Thanks for your explanation of the lamp usage in your setup, I was wondering about that. I personally remove all tweeter protection schemes from my passives, as I run a large enough mids and highs amp (200 watts per) that I never induce clipping which IMHO causes the majority of tweeter failure. And i have not yet damaged a tweeter with this scheme.
Although in the past i have seen and done my share of damage before finally getting a large enough amp to prevent clipped power from being sent to my drivers.
Oh a FYI you can find Emits on E-bay all day long including replacement ribbon elements for these types of ribbons, they are not cheap, but I believe thats because they feel they have a captive buying crowd.
What else is the elite crossover driving besides the Emits?
I have the elites in the doors. I usually don't mess with car speakers for my mid and highs, but morel make the elite, so I was cool with that. those are scanspeak mids and jbl pro highs. I have jbl 800 gti 8's in the back of the enclosure.
the diagram
I'm going to replace the audiobahn with HiVi reasearch 8's
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdet ... er=297-425
the diagram
I'm going to replace the audiobahn with HiVi reasearch 8's
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdet ... er=297-425
that the trade off the I take to ensure that I don't blow them. I didn't think about a zobel. I'm going to put one in. if you put the light in before the crossover that won't happen (it will just reduce the power going in as it heats up) but the light with blow quickly and with less power. you have to parallel them then.1moreamp wrote:Have you tried a Zobel filter to properly set the crossover tuning for this sort of setup.
I believe I understand your use of the "tweeter protector lamp" but you must understand that it induces its own set of issues when in this sort of circuit. Such as when the lamp lights up its resistance changes and so the entire circuit load characteristics change with the power level being feed to it. This in turn will alter the overall operation of the speaker and alters the sound character of the driver, and output levels.
that's how my jbl tweeter's crossover is set up with two dome lights in parallel.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdet ... N=69160422
Because of your responses in the subsonic filter thread, I thought I would pop by to see what you are capable of. I think I have a few concerns.
Let's start with the thread topic... First of all, there's more to tweeter protection than just a dome light. Refer to 1moreamps posts on that one. I would recommend you remove them, and thoroughly reconsider your configuration. If you insist on protecting them thusly, at least use a high grade ceramic resistor to lower the volume, rather than a light bulb which will have a variety of impedances.
Now the Elite crossover is a work of art, designed for the speakers with which it was intended to run. It has notch filters to offset poor ranges in the speakers frequency responses, corrects for phase, impedance, etc. It is extremely balanced between the PG Elite mid and tweeter.
Even if you did find a set of speakers that matched the impedance of the PG drivers, the correction circuitry would modify the frequency response in an adverse fashion. This is the last crossover you want to use with mismatched components!
Next concern is that by using a different impedance driver than the PG ones, you are changing the crossover frequencies. This could limit your speakers too high, or too low. If you insist on using a passive crossover for them, use one that is matched to them!!! At the very least, find a generic one like the eminence you linked to, and make sure it is impedance matched to your speakers, both mid and tweet.
Now on to your creative install... I don't see what is going on in the front end, but I assume there is a set of elites there somewhere? That's always a great start, but why do you have all of this noise coming from behind you?
When you go to a concert, do you face away from the stage? No... In your home stereo, you probably have your speakers placed in front of you, right? So why are you putting so much behind you? If you want to talk sound quality in car audio, it's all about getting the staging and imaging to come from in front of you. Since the human ear can only detect positional audio above ~60Hz or so, we run our subwoofers up to there. Then you install midbass up front, and the subwoofer will blend in with those drivers and create a "forward" sound. After that, it's a matter of properly aligning your mids and tweeters up front... voila! Yet from the looks of it you have
- Elite mids up front
- Infiniti tweeters in the B-pillars
- Components in your subwoofer box
In the other thread you keep talking about "phrase". Well, why do you have two different brands of 8" woofers firing on different planes (while running in the same airspace no less)? First of all, you want to try to keep all of your drivers on the same plane. Not doing so will cause cancellations as the frequency paths reflect around the vehicle and intersect each other. Also, using different models (let alone brands) of woofers in the same airspace is not recommended, as they both respond very differently to the input signal. Heck, even using different models of woofers in SEPARATE airspaces isn't such a great idea either, because again... cancellation.
Your choice of rear fill is interesting. I mentioned that in the car we are trying to promote a forward soundstage. This is why we rarely suggest using rear fill, and at the very least if you must do so, simply use midrange drivers. The tweeters make the rear fill extremely easy to locate, and they also destroy your imaging in the front of the vehicle by the nature of reflection. The less treble sources you have the better!
I have many more thoughts on this but for now I have to run out. Please note that I am trying to be constructive and not insult your installation skills. I would hope for the same courtesy in your reply.
Let's start with the thread topic... First of all, there's more to tweeter protection than just a dome light. Refer to 1moreamps posts on that one. I would recommend you remove them, and thoroughly reconsider your configuration. If you insist on protecting them thusly, at least use a high grade ceramic resistor to lower the volume, rather than a light bulb which will have a variety of impedances.
Now the Elite crossover is a work of art, designed for the speakers with which it was intended to run. It has notch filters to offset poor ranges in the speakers frequency responses, corrects for phase, impedance, etc. It is extremely balanced between the PG Elite mid and tweeter.
Even if you did find a set of speakers that matched the impedance of the PG drivers, the correction circuitry would modify the frequency response in an adverse fashion. This is the last crossover you want to use with mismatched components!
Next concern is that by using a different impedance driver than the PG ones, you are changing the crossover frequencies. This could limit your speakers too high, or too low. If you insist on using a passive crossover for them, use one that is matched to them!!! At the very least, find a generic one like the eminence you linked to, and make sure it is impedance matched to your speakers, both mid and tweet.
Now on to your creative install... I don't see what is going on in the front end, but I assume there is a set of elites there somewhere? That's always a great start, but why do you have all of this noise coming from behind you?
When you go to a concert, do you face away from the stage? No... In your home stereo, you probably have your speakers placed in front of you, right? So why are you putting so much behind you? If you want to talk sound quality in car audio, it's all about getting the staging and imaging to come from in front of you. Since the human ear can only detect positional audio above ~60Hz or so, we run our subwoofers up to there. Then you install midbass up front, and the subwoofer will blend in with those drivers and create a "forward" sound. After that, it's a matter of properly aligning your mids and tweeters up front... voila! Yet from the looks of it you have
- Elite mids up front
- Infiniti tweeters in the B-pillars
- Components in your subwoofer box
In the other thread you keep talking about "phrase". Well, why do you have two different brands of 8" woofers firing on different planes (while running in the same airspace no less)? First of all, you want to try to keep all of your drivers on the same plane. Not doing so will cause cancellations as the frequency paths reflect around the vehicle and intersect each other. Also, using different models (let alone brands) of woofers in the same airspace is not recommended, as they both respond very differently to the input signal. Heck, even using different models of woofers in SEPARATE airspaces isn't such a great idea either, because again... cancellation.
Your choice of rear fill is interesting. I mentioned that in the car we are trying to promote a forward soundstage. This is why we rarely suggest using rear fill, and at the very least if you must do so, simply use midrange drivers. The tweeters make the rear fill extremely easy to locate, and they also destroy your imaging in the front of the vehicle by the nature of reflection. The less treble sources you have the better!
I have many more thoughts on this but for now I have to run out. Please note that I am trying to be constructive and not insult your installation skills. I would hope for the same courtesy in your reply.
I see that are intent on starting trouble. leave that thread in that thread.
I guess that you missed the name of the thread. read it again. that's why I ask for the schematic. the dc resistance on both speakers were the same (I know, ac impedance is different), but I wanted to know what else that they had added in the crossover.
that simple fact was that ribbon sounded like crap. I didn't know if it was from too much power or was something else going on. you just answer my question (notch filter). I fixed it with the eq circuit (I guess that you missed the picture that shows it). I previously had the ribbon running with a 6 db passive and a 24 db active crossover at 4, 000khz when I had the PG's zx450 on it. but the massive size of this amp made me take it out. I was experiment on a passive solution.
now you had said that I was coming off like an A-hole before. what do you think that you are doing now? you could have helpful and answer my question, but you seem to want to do the opposite. tell me why. what did I ever do to you?
I guess that you missed the name of the thread. read it again. that's why I ask for the schematic. the dc resistance on both speakers were the same (I know, ac impedance is different), but I wanted to know what else that they had added in the crossover.
that simple fact was that ribbon sounded like crap. I didn't know if it was from too much power or was something else going on. you just answer my question (notch filter). I fixed it with the eq circuit (I guess that you missed the picture that shows it). I previously had the ribbon running with a 6 db passive and a 24 db active crossover at 4, 000khz when I had the PG's zx450 on it. but the massive size of this amp made me take it out. I was experiment on a passive solution.
now you had said that I was coming off like an A-hole before. what do you think that you are doing now? you could have helpful and answer my question, but you seem to want to do the opposite. tell me why. what did I ever do to you?
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Bfowler
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ericb, to simply answer your question, PG doesn't realise their schematics. they protect it like KFC's herbs and spices recipe.
this form represents more then a couple ex PG employees as well dealers/reps/installers, and loyal fans that have been working with PG since its humble beginnings. if the schematic was out their to be had, rest assured, we would have it.
and honestly, Stipud was not being an ass, his post 3 above this was FILLED with factual info, that he probably spent quite a bit of time typing out all for YOU.
this form represents more then a couple ex PG employees as well dealers/reps/installers, and loyal fans that have been working with PG since its humble beginnings. if the schematic was out their to be had, rest assured, we would have it.
and honestly, Stipud was not being an ass, his post 3 above this was FILLED with factual info, that he probably spent quite a bit of time typing out all for YOU.
my ex-girlfriend said "its car audio or me"
i've had tougher choices at a soda machine...
i've had tougher choices at a soda machine...