Phoenix Gold Phorum

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:25 am**

Here we go again.

I am planning new system for season 2008. Not sure yet what amps and accessories to use. Titanium series may be one choice to power subs and/or midbass section. Before all that:

- Is there fuses inside Ti line amps? Amp is better to protect with external fuses anyway?

- Powercore 15 or 20: What is smartest way to protect amps in case those doesn't have internal fuses? Fuses between PC 15/20 and amps?

- Then SDT kit / RDDP. Is it same device? If not, what is included with each set? What is that "R-LINK" box there? Does voltmeter work without it?

-maxxsq-

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:56 am**

maxxsq wrote:Here we go again.

I am planning new system for season 2008. Not sure yet what amps and accessories to use. Titanium series may be one choice to power subs and/or midbass section. Before all that:

- Is there fuses inside Ti line amps?

NO

Amp is better to protect with external fuses anyway?

depends on ..... oh fuck it YES

- Powercore 15 or 20: What is smartest way to protect amps in case those doesn't have internal fuses? Fuses between PC 15/20 and amps?

best = 18 inch or so from amp itself

note power core 20 = poof fire bad !

- Then SDT kit / RDDP. Is it same device? If not, what is included with each set? What is that "R-LINK" box there? Does voltmeter work without it?

no frigging clue

-maxxsq-

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:59 am**

Powercore no fire, Power grid = fire.

R-link is needed to make the RDDP port function correctly on the ti line.

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:10 am**

VW337 wrote:Powercore no fire, Power grid = fire.

R-link is needed to make the RDDP port function correctly on the ti line.

well the 15 was core eg cabon and the 20 was grid = aray of small cap = poof! remember?

btw I was iterpriting his posting.......ass

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:54 am**

Maybe I just add second battery to trunk. Or what do you think? Which one would be better upgrading to electrical system, Powercore 15/20 or second battery?

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:57 am**

if you have the space its always better to put a second battery

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:06 pm**

RDDP can be a little confusing because it's the name of the monitoring feature on some older PG amps as well as the part number for a pair of tri-color led's (one for voltage range, one for amp status) that can be used with an amp with the RDDP feature. To make things even more complicated there is also an RDDP kit which includes an R-link box and an RDDP. RDDP and SDT both monitor amp voltage AND status, the SDT just does the voltage digitally. An R-link has two outputs so you could use any combination of SDT and RDDP to monitor a single amp. This way you can monitor the amp at the amp rack and up in the passenger cabin for instance.

I would say that a battery and a stiffening capacitor each serve different roles in the electrical system for an audio system. Both are good!

As for the fusing question I've heard it both ways. I've been told that you don't want to fuse between the capacitor and amplifier and that you want to keep that circuit as short as possible. I can understand not needing a fuse in this location because the powercore doesn't store a lot of current. On the other hand, a fuse at or on an amp doesn't protect the amp while it's operating, it serves to protect the rest of the system from the amp should it fail. To be honest, I'd like to hear other's opinions on this as well!

Posted: **Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:01 pm**

power grid(tantrum ) was the fire bomb

power core 20 was not.

Posted: **Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:25 am**

Thank you all for your answers. Good information there.

Posted: **Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:54 pm**

brenzbmr@sb wrote:power grid(tantrum ) was the fire bomb

power core 20 was not.

I thought the problems with some of the pg "super" capacitors was entirely related to the large array of smaller electolytic caps. When one of them began to leak it was very difficult to notice the problem let alone repair it with all of the caps so tightly packed together. If that was in fact the problem, I don't see why the problem wouldn't affect both the powercore 20 and the powergrid 10 as they both used that type of design. As Mastiff mentioned, the powercore 15 was released later with a carbon aerogel design like the alumapro c.a.p.'s.

Posted: **Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:29 pm**

dedlyjedly wrote:
brenzbmr@sb wrote:power grid(tantrum ) was the fire bomb

power core 20 was not.
I thought the problems with some of the pg "super" capacitors was entirely related to the large array of smaller electolytic caps. When one of them began to leak it was very difficult to notice the problem let alone repair it with all of the caps so tightly packed together. If that was in fact the problem, I don't see why the problem wouldn't affect both the powercore 20 and the powergrid 10 as they both used that type of design. As Mastiff mentioned, the powercore 15 was released later with a carbon aerogel like the alumapro c.a.p.'s.

Didn't alumapro make the powercore 15 for PG or am I dreaming?

Posted: **Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:27 pm**

culzero wrote:if you have the space its always better to put a second battery

Ok, since I can speak out of a long winded journey of discovery and experience, you probably DO NOT need a second battery.

The only reason you may need a second battery is if you would like to listen to music without the car started, or you use power accessories such as winches or hydraulics. And if you go through this route, you will need a battery isolator.

An extra battery only manages to put an extra strain on the alternator because it requires charging. Capacitors are just as useless, and can run up as expensive as an extra battery.

The problem is, most amplifiers have unregulated power supplies and work best with a voltage of 14.4V. Your alternator provides that voltage. Only when your alternator fails to keep up with your system, will any battery kick in its reserve. So that means, if your battery is charged at 13.0V, it will only provide you power if your system drops below 13V.

If you got a good 200-300 to spend on power upgrades, please upgrade the big 3, power wire and alternator before you even look at a capacitor or extra battery.

Posted: **Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:04 pm**

mrblob wrote:If you got a good 200-300 to spend on power upgrades, please upgrade the big 3, power wire and alternator before you even look at a capacitor or extra battery.

What is that expression "the big 3" that you overseas guys use?

And as an answer to an earlier thread:

Alumapro did make the Powercore 15, yeah. I have heard that this one is not burning. (I sure hope not, since I have that one, hehe...)

Posted: **Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:15 pm**

Big 3 = Upgrading or adding redundant circuits for 1) connection from alternator to battery, 2) connection from battery to chassis ground, and 3) connection from alternator/block to chassis ground.

I don't know that I could go as far as to say that Alumapro made the powercore 15 for PG, but they were definitely involved in the overall design. The powercore 15's even have a little Alumapro Technology symbol on the case above the remote terminal.

I would just add to mrblob's comments that while adding a capacitor isn't the best approach as your only upgrade to the electrical system, that certainly doesn't mean that a capacitor is "useless." They do have a role to fill when added to an otherwise capable electrical system.

Posted: **Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:11 am**

mrblob wrote:
Ok, since I can speak out of a long winded journey of discovery and experience, you probably DO NOT need a second battery.

The only reason you may need a second battery is if you would like to listen to music without the car started, or you use power accessories such as winches or hydraulics. And if you go through this route, you will need a battery isolator.

I compete in SQ comps here in Finland. And as you may know SQ is judged when engine is not running. Judging may take up to 40...45 minutes. One single battery for all system is not enough. Maybe I'll replace my current battery to bigger one.

Is there some good battery you would recommend? Stinger SP1700, 2150, Kinetic, Optima Yellow top? Or should I connect two smaller parallel?

I already have 1/0 gauge wiring and bigger alt and looking for next upgrade.

Posted: **Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:35 pm**

[quote="dedlyjedly"
I would just add to mrblob's comments that while adding a capacitor isn't the best approach as your only upgrade to the electrical system, that certainly doesn't mean that a capacitor is "useless." They do have a role to fill when added to an otherwise capable electrical system.[/quote]

The only reason you should buy a capacitor is if bling is important... girls love those big shiny cylindrical things in the back and....

if your alternator isn't being strained, and your lights still dim. This is because some alternators take a few ms to respond to extreme dips in voltage. Basically it compensates for that delay. Again -- an upgraded alternator that is suffice for your system (never dips below 14.4V) actually provides current to your system faster than a capactior does anyways. Always get a upgraded alternator before a capacitor.

Posted: **Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:38 pm**

maxxsq wrote:
I compete in SQ comps here in Finland. And as you may know SQ is judged when engine is not running. Judging may take up to 40...45 minutes. One single battery for all system is not enough. Maybe I'll replace my current battery to bigger one.

Is there some good battery you would recommend? Stinger SP1700, 2150, Kinetic, Optima Yellow top? Or should I connect two smaller parallel?

I already have 1/0 gauge wiring and bigger alt and looking for next upgrade.

I have chosen 3xKinetic HC2400 Monster as my powerplant in my install.

Parallell is a good thing, no ned to go for two smaller ones, you never get too much power...

Posted: **Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:40 pm**

mrblob wrote:
dedlyjedly wrote: I would just add to mrblob's comments that while adding a capacitor isn't the best approach as your only upgrade to the electrical system, that certainly doesn't mean that a capacitor is "useless." They do have a role to fill when added to an otherwise capable electrical system.
The only reason you should buy a capacitor is if bling is important... girls love those big shiny cylindrical things in the back and....

if your alternator isn't being strained, and your lights still dim. This is because some alternators take a few ms to respond to extreme dips in voltage. Basically it compensates for that delay. Again -- an upgraded alternator that is suffice for your system (never dips below 14.4V) actually provides current to your system faster than a capactior does anyways. Always get a upgraded alternator before a capacitor.

I stand by my statement. A cap can provide much more than just "bling" to a high-end system that is powered by an otherwise capable electrical system.

Posted: **Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:07 pm**

dedlyjedly wrote:I stand by my statement. A cap can provide much more than just "bling" to a high-end system that is powered by an otherwise capable electrical system.

Yeah, you are right. Most batteries are a resistant. Only a few batteries can deliver power just as fast as a capasitor. So I stand behind your statement as well.

Optima's are "slow", but Kinetic are fast. To name one of the "cheap" Kinetics, the HC1800 - this battery delivers power FASTER than a capasitor...

Posted: **Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:33 pm**

It's not necessarily about the storage of energy. A good capacitor will act as a filter on the input voltage, improving sound quality. They install caps inside of amps for the same reason - to stabilize the powersupply and rail voltages. Odds are if they didn't do this, the power would be too unstable to run the amp properly.

Posted: **Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:59 pm**

maxxsq wrote:
mrblob wrote:
Ok, since I can speak out of a long winded journey of discovery and experience, you probably DO NOT need a second battery.

The only reason you may need a second battery is if you would like to listen to music without the car started, or you use power accessories such as winches or hydraulics. And if you go through this route, you will need a battery isolator.

I compete in SQ comps here in Finland. And as you may know SQ is judged when engine is not running. Judging may take up to 40...45 minutes. One single battery for all system is not enough. Maybe I'll replace my current battery to bigger one.

Is there some good battery you would recommend? Stinger SP1700, 2150, Kinetic, Optima Yellow top? Or should I connect two smaller parallel?

I already have 1/0 gauge wiring and bigger alt and looking for next upgrade.

Using two batterys is only recomended if you use the exactly the same batterys, both have to be new.
If one off the batterys is older or different you will end up discharging one battery with the other (they try to level)

If you cables are big enough and you have a good ground, its better to use the one battery, the biggest that will fit in your car.
Please use a deep cycle battery.

Posted: **Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:16 pm**

martinkruit wrote:
maxxsq wrote:
mrblob wrote:
Ok, since I can speak out of a long winded journey of discovery and experience, you probably DO NOT need a second battery.

The only reason you may need a second battery is if you would like to listen to music without the car started, or you use power accessories such as winches or hydraulics. And if you go through this route, you will need a battery isolator.

I compete in SQ comps here in Finland. And as you may know SQ is judged when engine is not running. Judging may take up to 40...45 minutes. One single battery for all system is not enough. Maybe I'll replace my current battery to bigger one.

Is there some good battery you would recommend? Stinger SP1700, 2150, Kinetic, Optima Yellow top? Or should I connect two smaller parallel?

I already have 1/0 gauge wiring and bigger alt and looking for next upgrade.
Using two batterys is only recomended if you use the exactly the same batterys, both have to be new.
If one off the batterys is older or different you will end up discharging one battery with the other (they try to level)

If you cables are big enough and you have a good ground, its better to use the one battery, the biggest that will fit in your car.
Please use a deep cycle battery.

I ran 2 diff batteries but def had the prob you are describing, my stinger sp1000 discharged the sh-t out of my optima yellow. I added a stinger sr200 relay between the 2 and the discharging stopped obviously so that's an option if you don't want to buy 2 new batteries and decide to add one new one to your existing. At least the batts won't be fighting while your car is off...just get a badass enough batt that can take the 45 minute beating ur expecting.

I ran an optima yellow, stinger sp1000, and a 15 farad powercore for a long time but if I ever set up a huge system again, I would take the cap out of the picture and def do 2 of the same batteries...but tht powercore did look sweet. I don't know that 2 batts and a cap were a great idea, I always had power probs even with a 200 amp alternator...but then again Ti12Ds are ridiculous power gobblers : ).

Posted: **Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:54 pm**

I agree with Stipud (and Jed) on capacitors. Almost every electronic device has "filtering" caps to smooth out voltage ripple (AKA electromagnetic interference or noise). Running a huge power cable the length of your car can certainly be a beautiful way to pick up this sort of intereference. This is one of the reasons they tell you to mount caps as close to your amp as possible!

It seems like caps get a bad rep as being "bling" and that they serve no purpose. . .why is that?

Posted: **Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:42 am**

I have had a engine noise i my car.

I did everything to get rid of it.

The solution was running the rca cable from the front to the back of the car directly alongside the power cable.

Do you understand this, i don't

Posted: **Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:48 am**

that doesn't make any sense to me either....

but i have a saying that i have always live by:

"if its dumb and it works...it isn't dumb"

Phoenix Gold Phorum

Few Q's about Titanium series

Few Q's about Titanium series

Re: Few Q's about Titanium series