Phoenix Gold Phorum

guys..... i've used the excellent rsd65cs i my car back home and just got a new ride here and lookin for some comps around " ebay " $500
i loved the rsd but now i wanna move up a little cause wanting more definition in the midrange and across the band.


there are a few in my list now ,
dynaudio 242GT, morel ovation 6, PG elite 6,Polk sr6500,Focal 16k2p

do suggest if there's anything else with better value....

PG elite seems to be tempting for the price( and for the name ) but many of u guys have compared that to the rsd65cs and commented the difference in sq is not much.....so probably its out of the list....

the importance here is on vocal quality,percussion and strings and of course with decent bass.
(err....that covers most of band doesn't it ... )
No rear fills or any other speakers at the back.
A single rsd12' in the trunk.



suggestions and opinions are much appreciated as always guys .....
the amp's gonna be either an outlaw or rsd500.4 bridged.

eyesofra wrote:guys..... i've used the excellent rsd65cs i my car back home and just got a new ride here and lookin for some comps around " ebay " $500
i loved the rsd but now i wanna move up a little cause wanting more definition in the midrange and across the band.


there are a few in my list now ,
dynaudio 242GT, morel ovation 6, PG elite 6,Polk sr6500,Focal 16k2p

do suggest if there's anything else with better value....

PG elite seems to be tempting for the price( and for the name ) but many of u guys have compared that to the rsd65cs and commented the difference in sq is not much.....so probably its out of the list....

the importance here is on vocal quality,percussion and strings and of course with decent bass.
(err....that covers most of band doesn't it ... )
No rear fills or any other speakers at the back.
A single rsd12' in the trunk.



suggestions and opinions are much appreciated as always guys .....
the amp's gonna be either an outlaw or rsd500.4 bridged.

im not a big fan of the polks or focals....also the pg's are just morels with pg labels on....now for personal prefs i have dyns in my wifes car and i swear by them....i have run god knows what over the years and as soon as i dropped the dyns in i was hooked.....the only other comps i liked more then these were the boston pro 6.5's not the new shit they sale now but the real deal..

either way you can not go wrong with dyns, i would hope this board will agree....

seas DIY

Dyn's are good


The PG elite's as Burb said were originally made by morel, but are not morel. In fact the Elites were built to PG spec by Morel, the XO is what really makes them shine. However as you said the elite and RSd comps are very similar in sound the main difference is the 300hz region of the elite's which blows away the RSd's


I however place my vote with Dubs the Seas drivers are amazing and a DIY kit is hands down the best value.

I can suggest you

Kick = Tangband W6-1139SG





http://www.juoiga.nl/download/w6-1139sc.pdf



Tweet = Vifa XT25SC90-04 - 1" Tweeter





http://www.tymphany.com/datasheet/printview.php?id=375

You will be amazed...........................

martinkruit wrote:I can suggest you

Kick = Tangband W6-1139SG





http://www.juoiga.nl/download/w6-1139sc.pdf



Tweet = Vifa XT25SC90-04 - 1" Tweeter





http://www.tymphany.com/datasheet/printview.php?id=375

You will be amazed...........................

pretty sure that tang band is designed as a true midbass...so playing up to 2.5khz would be tough. As for the Vifa xt25 small format, great tweeter on axis. Terrible off axis.

For your $500 budget Id suggest this..
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/produc ... 5736c3db53
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/produc ... cts_id=633

Why would the Vifa have bad off axis response? A phase plug is specifically to improve off axis response (marking says they dissipate heat, but that is not the real purpose).

Do you know of any reviews of that tweeter with some graphs from testing? I believe it is possible it has bad off axis response, but I just find it odd as the whole goal of it would then be self defeating.

bdubs767 wrote:

martinkruit wrote:I can suggest you

Kick = Tangband W6-1139SG





http://www.juoiga.nl/download/w6-1139sc.pdf



Tweet = Vifa XT25SC90-04 - 1" Tweeter





http://www.tymphany.com/datasheet/printview.php?id=375

You will be amazed...........................

pretty sure that tang band is designed as a true midbass...so playing up to 2.5khz would be tough. As for the Vifa xt25 small format, great tweeter on axis. Terrible off axis.

For your $500 budget Id suggest this..
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/produc ... 5736c3db53
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/produc ... cts_id=633

If your going to suggest a DIY approach your going to have to budget in an active x-over.

No, just design your own filter. it's not so hard, and you can make it as expencive as you want.

ok. i dont wanna cause anything here..LOL.. but has anyone hear these..

http://cgi.ebay.com/SOUNDSTREAM-RF-60C- ... dZViewItem

SOUNDSTREAM RF-60C 6½" 2-Way REFERENCE COMPONENT SYSTEM
@ $179.00 the mids have 3" voicecoils. 180w rms.

Just wondering.. they seem to be well built and they are pretty cheep. just wondering.

Or use the x-overs on your amp (assuming they have x-overs).

Personally I am running a DIY setup with Seas mids and LPG tweets and I love it!!!

i didnt even know people still used tang bang and vifa's....i guess somethings never change.

At the moment i'm busy building this, in a VW Golf. I think its a great couple.


Kick = Tangband W6-1139SG (2 units)





http://www.juoiga.nl/download/w6-1139sc.pdf



mid + high = Tangband W3-1285SG broadband



http://www.juoiga.nl/download/w3-1285sg.pdf

It will be driven by (kicks) PG M50, (mids) PG M44

diymodileaudio.com

look for npdang reviews


fyi Seas neo als best compacts tweets made from a measurement perspective.

and


ACTIVE > PASSIVE in a car .....unless, you spend hours upon hrs and some more hrs fine tunning an xover to your exact install, and still IMO Active DSP will win

emmm...i'll start checkin out the DIY stuffs...thanx fellas....
well this direction i would need an active xover.... got a mx2 in the closet..

1)is this good enough guys.... its a variable 2-way with 12db slope or would i need something better ,the r-net types or mx3i( variable 24db slope 3 way) .
It would be difficult tuning to a precise xover points with the variable types doesn't it ?

2)how do we address the phase issue between the high and mids with active xover ?
If im not wrong,in a passive comps say the rsd65cs, the xover design takes into account the phase response of each drivers to makes them behave as a single unit as much as possible ? How do we do this with an active xover guys ?

ok now its getting exciting all over again....moving into the active world....

I hate to send you to another site, but check out http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/. They are geared towards DIY active setups. Read, read, and read some more, there is a lot of knowledge over there!

thanx man... more late nights now....

eyesofra wrote:thanx man... more late nights now....

Yeah, it's a lot bigger now then when I was first starting to get into DIY stuff. A lot more reading to do now, but it's still a good site for that kind of info.

Phase is the devil...passive or active in a car, but there are many things that you can use to fix phase. Flip the phase 180 degrees, EQ, TA, xover slopes, ect. Just takes time playing around w/ stuff.

bdubs767 wrote:Phase is the devil...passive or active in a car, but there are many things that you can use to fix phase. Flip the phase 180 degrees, EQ, TA, xover slopes, ect. Just takes time playing around w/ stuff.

And if you need to flip the fase with ninety degrees, do it with your tweeters by adding one passive component.

Filtering 6db is 90 degrees
12 db = 180 degrees
18 db = 270 degrees
24 db = 360 degrees so your back round again.

It is best to avoid 12 db filtering, it is the worst and difficult.

martinkruit wrote:

bdubs767 wrote:Phase is the devil...passive or active in a car, but there are many things that you can use to fix phase. Flip the phase 180 degrees, EQ, TA, xover slopes, ect. Just takes time playing around w/ stuff.

And if you need to flip the fase with ninety degrees, do it with your tweeters by adding one passive component.

Filtering 6db is 90 degrees
12 db = 180 degrees
18 db = 270 degrees
24 db = 360 degrees so your back round again.

It is best to avoid 12 db filtering, it is the worst and difficult.

does this mean the best would be a 24db xover ?

and in case with a 12db xover, if we flip the output at the speakers end, would it result in phase correction to 0 degrees ( as the 24db ) ???

eyesofra wrote:
does this mean the best would be a 24db xover ?

and in case with a 12db xover, if we flip the output at the speakers end, would it result in phase correction to 0 degrees ( as the 24db ) ???

Yes and Yes.

The reason for not using 12 db (with passive components) is, when you disconnect a speaker it will result in a short cicuit. (at a given frequence)

I do not fully agree with martinkruid:
I could be that 24db/oct sounds better, because then you have a steep slope, but you have also a much greater bump on your x-over frequenty.

It could also be that a 12db/oct filter sounds better because you don't have a steep slope, etc etc.

I'm now filtering 24db/oct on my pg zx 450 (active system ), and my sub is filterd by the head unit on 18db/oct, because then the sub is in phase with the front system...

testing testing testing should I say

ok this is gettin somewhere but i'm still confused...
with 24db for the fronts and 18db for the sub wont u still have a phase lag of 90 degrees in between them ... how is it in-phase then ?

or does it not work like that and in car environment these somehow becomes in phase ?

I suppose you sub is in the back of you car.
If so, it will take a while for the bass to reach your ears if everything is in phase.
When you change the fase everything will seems to sound better more as one.

@MINICOOP you are talking about a bump, you can avoid this by not using the same frequenties to filter on.

When you filter on say 200 Hz. both sub as mid you will create a bump of 3 db on the crossover frequence. eg +3 db at 200 Hz.

But when you filter (24 db) the sub at 150 hz the minus 3 db point will be at 167.5 Hz. then you can filter your mid at 200 hz. in that case the minus 3 db point is also at 167.5 Hz. combined the two minus 3 db point will give a boost off +3 db, so your frequence responce will be flat.

You understand?