Phoenix Gold Phorum

In about 1 week, I will be running a set of RSd 6" components (in my sexy/heavy kicks) powered from the front channels of an M44 amp. The rear channels are currently bridged and powering an Xmax 10" in a sealed enclosure and will stay that way for now. My currently stock rear stage is powered off the deck. This will eventually be replaced by most likely a set of Dayton Audio Reference Series drivers. Cheap and not nearly as crappy as stock. Something like that.

Now, for the question.

Given the setup with the two "soon to be" items included, should I consider getting a matching M25 or M50 to power the Xmax if I wanted more low end "umphf"? (I would use the other M44 channel for the rears or split up the tweets and drivers for the front stage).

Should I instead port the box and keep it powered off the M44?

I was reading that Roadster 66 is basically an M44 with an M25 in the same chassis and heat sink... got me thinking about doing something like that with just the two different amps. But I found it odd how they seemed to recommend running the sub channel on one of the M44 channels of the amp and using the M25 channels for full range speakers... or something like that. I didn't understand why because the M25 is capable of putting out more power bridged than the M44 can on a bridged channel. Yeah, if someone could enlighten me on that, I'd appreciate it.

I'm pretty set on the Xmax, partly because it was just a steal and partly because I like tight and punchy, so that's not going to change. Although, realistically there's only so much low end the Xmax is going to do so I do understand there are certain limitations by keeping the Xmax... but still, I know it can take a few more clean M series watts

So yeah, if I wanted more low end after all is said and done with the soon-to-be configuration would getting another matching amp be a good idea? Would porting be a good idea instead or as a combination with another amp?

The obvious reason I ask about the M25 or M50 is because I love matching stuff in installs and I don't think I'd get another amp if it wasn't an M series.

I was reading that Roadster 66 is basically an M44 with an M25 in the same chassis and heat sink

The "ROUTE 66" is an M44 and an M25 in the same heatsink. If I were you I would look at adding an M50 or if you really wanted to match look for an M100 as they are the exact same size. Either way you would have an awesome system.

For what it's worth I say do the M100

Yeah, sorry about the name. I got a couple models confused and just tried to recall the name without going back and looking it up.

Tom also suggested the M100...

fuzzysnuggleduck wrote:...should I consider getting a matching M25 or M50 to power the Xmax if I wanted more low end "umphf"?

do you mean more LOW END, or more "UMPHF?" I realize they're not entirely mutually exclusive, but just trying to better understand your goals with the system. if you want more "umphf" then by all means add more power or a custom vented enclosure. but i would assume that you meant you want low frequency extension, and for that task there's no substitute for swapping out your current driver. You can do it, I'm a recovering max addict myself!

fuzzysnuggleduck wrote:I'm pretty set on the Xmax...because I like tight and punchy, so that's not going to change.

i hear ya. but like i said before you don't necessarily have to compromise low frequency response in order to achieve that tight and snappy bass. in fact, a good part of what the human ear detects as tight and snappy bass is best categorized as midbass. when you upgrade to the rsd components your gaining substantial midbass capability. couple that with your deadened and sealed kicks and it's a whole new ball game. by freeing up this portion of the sub's workload you can then focus on targeting those low frequencies. after you get a good feel for you rsd6cs with the xmax steal tom's rsd for a few hours of listening and tell us what you think.

M100 and an RSD 12 would be perfect. Both of them are pretty "cheap" too.

Either way, you're getting ahead of yourself. Get it all installed first, then see how you feel. We will test the setup with and without a sub to see what kind of effect it makes, and see if it needs to make more or less of a difference.

fuzzysnuggleduck wrote:Given the setup with the two "soon to be" items included, should I consider getting a matching M25 or M50 to power the Xmax if I wanted more low end "umphf"?

Spec wise a M25 (2x65w, 1 x140) isn't much more powerful than 2 channels of a M44, and if its on paper, it probably not enough of difference to notices. I would do a M50 (85 x 2 , 240 x1) or M100 ( 185 x 2, 500x1) if you looking for more power. Remember the M50 doesn't have an internal crossover...

Just remember, every time you double the power is essentially 3 decibels difference (barely audible... sit in my car with the seats up, then down... that's about a 3db difference).

So M25 makes 140 versus the M44 making 100, you're getting maybe 1.5 decibels difference. M50 making 250 you're getting 3.25 or so. M100 making 500 you'll get a good 6.5dB.

My stereo motto is do it once, do it right. If you're going to buy another amp, it may as well be a big one, just incase you ever decide to upgrade in the future. For the ~$50 difference between each step of amp, it is worth it to pay the small difference now rather than have to buy a new amp in the future.

Also keep in mind that you would have to do some more system upgrades to add the second amp. That dual 8 gauge run is cool for the M44, but you would need better for adding an M100 (i.e. 2 gauge..) plus distribution blocks, plus another RCA, etc etc. As you know it all adds up, but it's easy to ignore the small things. Make sure you include them in your calculations!

As for porting the woofer, Jason has my old 2x10 ported "Alpine" box that we could test the Xmax in, since each chamber has it's own airspace. You could just hook up the one woofer and see if you like how it sounds. You could also add a second woofer for an additional 3dB.... the box would be free (you would have to paint it, Jason sprayed the front a nasty green color). That's another cheap option if you want to look that way.

Run the front stage actively on your current amp, get a M50 for your sub, and just keep running the rears off the deck.

Thanks for the advice guys.

And yes, this is all theoretical until I get the RSd's installed and have a real good listen. I don't actually know that I'll be lacking any bass (or umphf).

I'll take into account what you guys have said when I listen to the RSd setup and then I'll go from there.

Im gonna agree with all the advice already given.

Dont worry about rear speakers, and if you do, just pick up some rsd coaxes of the deck or something.

Wait for the rsds and see how you like your system. if you need more oomph, we will get you an akit4, and find you a M100. And if you still dont like it we can change out the xmax with a RSD also.

m100 to RSd12

m44 bridged to power the rsd.

I would say active but that alpine deck Im pretty sure cant do that.

With the RSd's in place you may infact have too much upper spectrum bass with the Xmax...............you may wish to look into a low frequency monster as the Xmax is designed to be efficient and it was intended to blend with weak sauce mids.

Kill the rears.

Bridge your M44 into 2 channels and drive the piss outta the RSd comps, get an M100 and plan to add a RSd 10/12 or a Xenon to it.


My $0.02