The Juice to get loose.....

Post by **Rold Gold** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:02 am

Installing the gear is only part of the battle. The war is won with power. Not the watts yer amps are pushing out but what the amp can draw from. I'm running dual "yellow tops" with the PG isolator AND A 200amp alt.

Just running "stock" and adding a cap is like robbing Peter to pay Paul. What are you guy's doing for upgrades to the charging system. Any cool tricks?

Post by **Bfowler** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:08 am

i haven't had to do anything crazy on my install.

my battery is already in the trunk (bmw 328is) and the car is standard with a 140amp alt. also running an optima red, and a 1f cap wired to the dist-blocks

i upgraded the battery ground/chassis to 1/0 (which is only about 7 inches)
and then the +1/0 to fuse block is about 2 feet. im running a x600.1 and x200.2 so i'm not pulling as much power as a lot of guys

gkitching · Post by **gkitching** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:58 am

Check this out.

http://www.kinetikaudio.com/hc16v.asp

I have been an Optima dealer since forever but these Kinetiks are the shit. Haven't had one single battery come back. Wish I could say the same for the yellow tops.

Post by **Rold Gold** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:56 pm

I've heard that about the YT's but have havd these for 3 years and the two I had before that did great right up until they got stolen.

Those kinetik cells are KICK-ASS!!!!

But they cost a fortune.......

Over kill----but 2 YT's and a 10 farad seem to give me EVERYTHING I've ever needed.

Post by **Rold Gold** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:08 pm

Here's how I'm wired-------

200amp alt--1/0--#1 YT--1/0 to trunk--#2 YT--10 farad--dist block

I've also gone through and upgraded ALL of the factory grounds and any other power I could.

dedlyjedly · Post by **dedlyjedly** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:24 pm

I really want to use Kinetik when I finally get around to completing my personal install but they are costly. I once heard that when Scott Owen's Ford pickup (Kinetik sponsored?) burnt to the ground and everything needed to be replaced that even he didn't get a better deal than dealer cost on all the replacement Kinetik batteries! Does that sound right Greg, or do they have some programs to assist you with your demo vehicles, etc.?

The yellow tops seem to be great batteries except when they're not properly re-charged after being deep cycled. After a deep cycle it is definitely best to trickle charge the battery back up to a proper standing voltage. They tend to die after several deep cycles where the owner simply jumped the vehicle and let the alternator re-charge the battery. That said, you're better off with a less expensive optima red top for audio applications anyhow.

Post by **stipud** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:21 pm

dedlyjedly wrote:That said, you're better off with a less expensive optima red top for audio applications anyhow.

Bluetop starter for the wins

Post by **Rold Gold** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:48 pm

I know it sounds hoekey but I originally bought the YT's because of the engine-bay color scheme I was doing.

I've heard of guys having multiple battery set-ups blow up during competition.

Hell, I helped a friend of mine do a build-out in his "baby blue" 82' Cutluss that was a M100, M44, 2 M50's and 2 JL 15W6 (the original series) and had the battery explode while he was on the mic. The carpet caught fire and through all that the amps and woofers played on.... The stereo shop he worked at sold EVERY peice of PG gear they had that day.

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:26 pm

dedlyjedly wrote:That said, you're better off with a less expensive optima red top for audio applications anyhow.

Why is that?

I bought a RedTop because of it's CCA rating, really. My 4Runner is a bit beastly and I wanted reliable power to turn her over when it's colder out but I was thinking the whole time that I was sacrificing on the audio side of things by going with the RedTop vs YellowTop.

PGsta14me · Post by **PGsta14me** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:16 pm

What's the difference between the Yellow and Red?

Also, what brand of 200A alts are you guys using?

. . .Looking to do a major power upgrade myself and the best alt I can find is a 180A Bosch ("factory-fit" replacement style), but for 440$

Post by **Rold Gold** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:24 pm

I had mine built at a place that rebuilds alt's. The ones on fleabay are cheap knock-offs as far as I've ever heard. They won't charge at idle and burn up in under 2 years but just far enough over the warranty period. It cost me $200 but they did an awesome job and polished the case. Much like the PG A/C Delco units from back when.

dedlyjedly · Post by **dedlyjedly** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:47 pm

fuzzysnuggleduck wrote:
dedlyjedly wrote:That said, you're better off with a less expensive optima red top for audio applications anyhow.
Why is that?

Well, primarily because it's less expensive! But also the Optima starter batteries have a slightly lower ESR. All you really gain with the YellowTop is the ability to deep cycle it more times without causing damage to the cells (as long as it's re-charged properly) hence the "deep cycle" description. But even the RedTops can be deep cycled a number of times before damage starts to occur so unless you habitually kill the battery it's not worth the extra dough you'll fork out for the "upgrade."

Ironically, you can tell as much about an Optima battery by the color of the grey casing as much as you can by the top color. I was told that a dark grey case indicates a starter battery (Red tops and some Blue tops) while the lighter grey indicates a deep cycle battery. I'm not certain what other minor differences would be found on the Blue top (although I believe it was for a marine application) as I've never dealt with them.

Pedi · Post by **Pedi** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:58 pm

I just have bought 2 Kinetics HC2400s, as a start. They are sooo expensive here in Norway, that I must buy the rest that I need over a period.

How much do they cost in the US?

R-acer · Post by **R-acer** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:37 am

I am lucky I guess....my Dodge Ram 2500/cummins pick up has 2 750a batteries and a 200+ amp alternator

I am also going to put in a 20F cap to run one Zapco 9.0 and 2 MS2250's or the 9.0 & MS1000

Post by **Rold Gold** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:29 am

Pedi wrote:I just have bought 2 Kinetics HC2400s, as a start. They are sooo expensive here in Norway, that I must buy the rest that I need over a period.

How much do they cost in the US?

Well....... That kinda depends on where you are and who you know. Here in P-town, they "retail" ie NO LUBE for around $450 for the top dog. Should you be lucky enough to know somebody then it might only run ya $300-350. Now, I've seen them go out the door for as little as $275 but the dude dropped $5K and packed his X-STAR with more gear than I've ever had in one car.

MINI COOP · Post by **MINI COOP** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:05 am

under the hood I have a stupid 44Ah battery, hey, the gasoline in belgium is verry expensive, so I have just a 1300cc motor

in the back I have a yellowtop 60AH 1000A short-circuit. it's doing verry well in the system. but guys, check the voltage when the system is at full power and with the motor on. you don't have 14.4v (yes, in the beginning, when you start pumping), but you end with a 13.8V or somthing like that because the amps are drawing a lot of current and you ALWAYS have some resistance on your wiring.

to avoid this power losing I want to buy a helix powerstation. it can draw 100A rms (200A max) on the voltage you choose (between 12 and 15V), that should make some difference

martinkruit · Post by **martinkruit** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:35 pm

I'm using two Yellowtops, one up front and one in the back.
No caps.
And a 140 amp alternator

The yellowtops are fore sale (if do a very good search) for € 199.-

gkitching · Post by **gkitching** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:22 pm

I'll start by clarifying that I'm no battery expert. I have enough to remember with the audio end. So I usually go by what I'm told by the manu's rep. But with that said...

I posted that link to a certain Kinetik that's fairly new. It has both 12volt and 16volt connections. Ideally, you would use the 12v for the vehicle connections and the 16v for all your amplifier connections. SPL guys are eating these things up for that reason.

I admit I've had one Optima YT in my vehicle for over three years and all my displays have YT's as back-up to the power supplies in them. All have been performing well for a long time. Although I haven't really checked the ones in the displays lately.

Optimas and their 'problems' seem to be with the ones manufactured within the past couple/3 years. Right about the same time the 'look alikes' started showing up. Hell, you can get the same battery with 3 or 4 different names on them. Which I think corresponded with the variations in color of the body. I have a couple of guys that had been going thru the YT's about 1 every 9 months. Until they decided to go with the Kinetiks. And now haven't had a single problem.

As for the differences, the yellow top was the deep cycle, the red top was a starting battery and the blue was to be a hybrid of both. Essentially a starting battery with a better tolorence to being drained and still being able to recharge. Although the blue ones seemed to have the highest failure rate. ???

Jed, you are right about Kinetik's programs. There really aren't any. There is an employee discount program that is a little better than cost but of coarse that's a one time thing. For what it's worth, I would be more than happy to offer a discount to my fellow Phorum members but as heavy as these things are I'm sure any savings would be wasted on shipping. If anyone is interested just PM me or shoot me an e-mail.

Post by **VW337** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:51 pm

I am running dual Kinetik HC800's in parallel, wired both + and - with 1/0 to a 140A alt and + and - 1/0 to the trunk.....

The Batt's will be relocated to the trunk when I actually start working on my car again....

Post by **Bfowler** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:54 pm

^what that really means is

my system is as done as it will ever be

Fatii · Post by **Fatii** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:20 pm

i havent read all the all reply´s but if u running our engine and the current isn´t enough, i wont matter if u got like 8 battery! its the alT that is bad... if u engine is in idl the battery its just a keep´r of the extra current...it´s off idl u have the battry, get a better alt, and secure the - and +.. or i bigger + line from the alt/generator, also u can change the loadregulator in the alt/Generator ..

/F :just a littel tipsy