Ax406a and Ax204 question

Post by **kg1961** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:24 am

I own both new in the box the question I have is are they line drivers also or do they just take and give out the same volts???
e.g. 2v in 2volts out?

HoseHead · Post by **HoseHead** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:48 am

Dyoo looky loo at the manuals??

AX-204
AX-406

From those, I read it as they accept up to 8 volts (9 volts for the 406) and will pass that level along to the outputs if all pots are maxed out. I don't believe it will amplify a signal (ie 2 volts in and provide 6 volts out).

Remember, many old school amps don't like anything grander than 2 volts in. I run a 406 into a FAS. I send about 6 volts RMS audio to the front end of the 406 (from an AC Four1.i), but only send about 1.75 volts to the 2125 and the 430 out the ass end of the 406. Amp gains are about 50%.

Post by **kg1961** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:57 am

that what I thought just reading it but I wanted to make sure.
Im going to run the FAS 2125 side to my sub 2ohm . I am a little worried but I will have to be careful. just bought the 8" cooling fan form Stringer
and the 430 side bridged 2 8" mid bass sub under my seats
for now I will use the amp in the car for the speakers
now the question is do I use both the 204 and 406?
i want the sub 80hz and down and the mid bass 140 and down if I can.
the reason is my car has 11- 4" mid and tweeter speakers in it now not including the 8' mid bass subs and the 12"

HoseHead · Post by **HoseHead** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:21 am

The R-Net modules in either device are going to determine the frequencies you wish to deliver to each 406 output.
In addition, each 406 output has it's own potentiometer to allow you full control over each output level.

With the 406 alone, you could use:
- low pass for the subs with an 80 hz RNet - (80 hz and below)
- band pass - mid range out to your 8" mid bass with a 140 hz RNet - (81-140 hz)
- high pass out to your 4" mids/tweets with a 140 hz RNet - (140hz and up)

I run:
LP - MS2125 bridged to qty 3 XMax12 subs in series @ 1.33 ohms @ 90hz.
BP - MQ430 stereo to qty 4 KEF KAR6.5 mid bass @ 600 hz.
HP - PPI 440 stereo to qty 4 Clarion SRH75 tweets @ 600 hz

Mids are in factory cavities, each corner of the cabin, waist high when sitting.
Tweets are ear high, each corner of the cabin.
Subs are sealed in separate cavities, rear facing in the trunk.

With this setup, I'm able to tune each speaker's level independantly (subs are mono of course) at both the XOver and the amplifier to my exact preferences.

Results are nothing short of outstanding. I do have an AC EpiCentre as well, a critical device as far as I'm concerned. A PG Bass Cube would provide the same service.

Post by **kg1961** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:05 am

got to say I have a PG bass cube new in the box
can you send me more info in a pm to show how to set the xover the manual doesn't show much 80 and down for the sub 80 to 140 for the mids
I just want to use the xover for the sub and mid bass sub and the bass cube for the sub
its a 12" jl12w6v2
in a sealed 18x14x12.75 mdf box firing up into the trunk.
I am adding a false flooring to hide all the items and not have to worry about using my trunk

KHPower · Post by **KHPower** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:53 am

I have the AX204A sitting right infront of me opened up and it seems as the lowpass chip says 90hz and the high pass chip is 125hz And it also seems that you can change the level of output

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:28 pm

mikelycka wrote:got to say I have a PG bass cube new in the box
can you send me more info in a pm to show how to set the xover the manual doesn't show much 80 and down for the sub 80 to 140 for the mids
I just want to use the xover for the sub and mid bass sub and the bass cube for the sub
its a 12" jl12w6v2
in a sealed 18x14x12.75 mdf box firing up into the trunk.
I am adding a false flooring to hide all the items and not have to worry about using my trunk

Setting the xover points in the AX204 and AX406 are done with RNETs or resistor networks. They are hard set and to change them you need to build an RNET.

Look here for more information on RNETs:

http://phoenixphorum.com/ordering-rnets-vt1731.html

If you can find the right parts, and know how to solder, it's easy to make them. Cecil sent me the 14 pin DIPs and resistors that I needed and I soldered them up myself.

Post by **kg1961** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:50 pm

thanks!!! I will have to play with that
the question I have is how do I set my 406 for my mid bass subs 80-140??? I can make the plug but were do I switch it and what rca out do I use???2 way or 3 way? etc.
I might have to look at the manual alot more but it didn't have much info

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:54 pm

mikelycka wrote:thanks!!! I will have to play with that
the question I have is how do I set my 406 for my mid bass subs 80-140??? I can make the plug but were do I switch it and what rca out do I use???2 way or 3 way? etc.
I might have to look at the manual alot more but it didn't have much info

You have to take the cover off to replace the RNETs. It's very easy.

As for what setting is best, I don't know!

KHPower · Post by **KHPower** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:19 pm

So if he wanted to go let say send 30 hz to his subwoofer he would have to change the chip inside his crossover to a 30 hz chip? or build one?

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:00 pm

KHPower wrote:So if he wanted to go let say send 30 hz to his subwoofer he would have to change the chip inside his crossover to a 30 hz chip? or build one?

It's like any xover, but the xover point is controlled by the "chip" instead of a potentiometer. So if you want an 80Hz LP, you need to build/buy an RNET chip for 80Hz and plop it into the LP section of the AX.

The HOWTO I posted shows you exactly how determine what resistors to use to get the xover point you want.

While doing xovers this way is certainly more of a pain from an installation point of view, they are supposedly more "accurate" than pot-based xovers because you can control EXACTLY what your xover point is. Now that there are digital xovers with high accuracy, this really isn't a big issue anymore.

Post by **kg1961** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:00 pm

I will build one for 80 hz and down
just wondering if there is away to use the other outs to run my mid bass subs 80 to 140??? or do I just run 140 down?
I took the cover off my 406a and there is 3 points the 90hz is my xover sub the other 2 are 125hz
can I just change those 2 but what one is the 80 and the other 140
will this work or do I need to run both my 406 and 204?

HoseHead · Post by **HoseHead** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:03 pm

In a 406, there are three RNet modules as Fuzzy described.

3Way mode - Only front input is used.

U25 - Low Pass - All frequencies below RNet value (ie - 80 hz) will pass here to the Low Pass out put- run this to sub
U23 - Front High Pass - All frequencies above RNet value (ie 140 hz) will pass here to the Front High Pass output - run this to tweets.
U24 - Band Pass - Everything between 80-140 hz (using RNet value of 140 hz) are passed to the Mid Range Bandpass output - run these to your mids.

2Way mode - Both front & rear inputs are used.

U25 & U23 function the same.
U24 will pass everything above RNet value to Rear High Pass output.

I know it's complicated when you first look at it. I was a few days figuring out what the hell PG was talking about.

The BassCube is the first device in your signal path after your HU. It will enhance all your bass frequency levels and then your XOver will forward them on to your sub out, but stop them from getting through to your mids or tweets.

Post by **kg1961** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:14 pm

thats great.
don't worry Im running stock for now for the mid tweet, there is a factory amp running the 11 speakers about 55w x11 but more like 18w
im just using this for mid bass subs and sub
thanks again
Mike
for now untill the car is out of warr. another 38 months. than I will pull the deck put a dxz9255 clarion or if Marko want to sell is pg/ denon deck??? then I will change all the mids/tweeter to focal
the only problem is I just sold my zero point they were way to deep
I only have 50mm

HoseHead · Post by **HoseHead** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:15 pm

mikelycka wrote:I will build one for 80 hz and down
just wondering if there is away to use the other outs to run my mid bass subs 80 to 140??? or do I just run 140 down?
I took the cover off my 406a and there is 3 points the 90hz is my xover sub the other 2 are 125hz
can I just change those 2 but what one is the 80 and the other 140
will this work or do I need to run both my 406 and 204?

No, you don't need to run both X-Overs.

Those are factory 406 RNet values.

For you:
- Use front Inputs only
- X-Over Select - 3Way mode
- Sub I/P - Parallel
- Sub O/P - Mono
- Phase - Your choice for best sound - each car cabin/speaker location is different/unique.
U25 - 80hz - Low Pass O/P to Sub amp
U23 - 140hz - MidRange Bandpass O/P to "under seat" amp
U24 - 140hz - High Pass O/P to current amp (if I understand your original configuration)

KHPower · Post by **KHPower** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:20 pm

Not to hijack this thread but I am wondering if I am understanding this correctly. The AX204A , mine for example has 1 90 hz chip and the other one is 125 hz chip. SO the 90hz will allow all frequencies below 90 hz to 20 hz to pass through and block everything higher that 90 hz?

Also , I was speaking to a fella from PG today about using the AX204A to mono a signal and to use it with the basscube and he said it is best to run the basscube after the crossover. Basiclly the cube takes the signal from the cross over and makes it better(simply put). But I guess that may be only if your using the basscube for a sub.

A AX204A with 90 hz chip can be used on a sound system requirinf a 30+ hz signal to the sub?

Post by **kg1961** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:27 pm

so my new question is like the 406 how the hell do you use or set the bass cube
I am makiong my lighter the knob so I want to set it and not worry??

KHPower · Post by **KHPower** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:44 am

mikelycka wrote:so my new question is like the 406 how the hell do you use or set the bass cube
I am makiong my lighter the knob so I want to set it and not worry??

Mike ,

Read this , it gives you are more in depth way to set up your cube
http://download.phoenixphorum.com/Manua ... ecrets.pdf

Post by **kg1961** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:36 am

once again your the man!! thanks again
you posted a link to build the 14 pin with colors
I used it to find out what I could get close to the 80hz and 140hz
maybe I did it wrong but I could only get 230 not 235 and 130 not 134.29?
thanks again
Mike

marko · Post by **marko** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:09 am

i won't be selling my headunit any time soon

i love it to bits!!!

Post by **kg1961** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:22 am

thats what I thought just keep me in mind when you do!!!