speaker placement.

[bdubs767]

Okay now to hear all your opinions on where I should place my speakers...which look to be
hiquphon 0w1-fs as tweet
scan 12m
scan or peerless 8"....

Heres basically my two options as I see it.

#1

-simple...easy to do, and since I have done both of these tasks before I should be able to make them look pretty damn good this time.
-8" can be run IB or AP this way
-depth should be awsome and the amount of digital tunning should be minimal.
-reflections can be handled better this way.


#2

could become this if I get some balls

-this one will be a little harder, but I shoudl be able to pull it off.
-8" will have have better PLDs and not as much problems with energy transfers from what I have been reading.
-8" will have to be AP and I will have to cut up my kick area which will be interesting, but I should be able to pull it off.
-the mid and tweet will have a far better vertical axis and have less issues w/ things being in the way of the speakers
-speakers will be all over but with the amount of proc. I have should be able to over come it.
-depth will prob be hurt some.



There are countless others thigns I can go on abotu why i sjould use either or but I want Any advice you guys can offer

[Francious70]

Go with #1. No particular reason other than it's the least obtrusive.

[Bfowler]

can you fit it so that the 8" is in the kick, and the mid and tweet fit into your door "hole"

no specific reason, but it seems like it would give you less points of reference, not alter much more than you have, and give you a nice high stage.


and if not....option 1.

easy, and tired and true staging

[1moreamp]

I like number two, but thats a lot of work to make that fit.

Which do you think will have best imaging??

[bdubs767]

I like number two, but thats a lot of work to make that fit.

Which do you think will have best imaging??

with the alp pxa # 2


If it were passive or analog # 1 clearly, but no more passive FOR ME

[VW337]

mid and tweet in/on dash at A-pillar not pictured w/8 in pod.

[BH]

I like #1 because it allows for the tightest coupling of all of the frequency ranges. If you can get them all in the same area (as much as you can) and all on the same axis and equa-distant from the listing position you'll find that you get really nice imaging because you don't have all of the phasing problems that come from having you high stage so removed from your mid bass stage.

One guy in a competition did something very similar to that but found that he had a problem where his sound stage sounded way too low. What he did to fix this was he put a nice pair of silk tweets in the a-pillars and crossed them over really high like 10 to 12k and it worked really well... He almost beat me...

[bdubs767]

mid and tweet in/on dash at A-pillar not pictured w/8 in pod.

as pod you mean sealed or AP? and where?

so what your saying is...



only problem in the driver side not so nice, as the driver's gauge area goes up about 5" higher then the normal plane of the dash

[bdubs767]

One guy in a competition did something very similar to that but found that he had a problem where his sound stage sounded way too low. What he did to fix this was he put a nice pair of silk tweets in the a-pillars and crossed them over really high like 10 to 12k and it worked really well... He almost beat me...

what I was thinking pick up a lpg 25 or 26 and the thing is small throw it in the pillars power it via one of the two smaller mps.

[Francious70]

you need to aim better with your cigarettes homie.

[bdubs767]

you need to aim better with your cigarettes homie.

lol this will explain

I have never pillars just never switched em

[BH]

The guy had his tweets probably about 3/4 the way up the windshield and firing toward the windshield and wired out of phase. The main reason for that is that once the audio reflects off the window it inverts phase because of physics so you change it in the electrical side to counteract the physical inversion. When you crossover the top tweets at 10 to 15k you'll find that they barely do anything. Essentially I'd recommend keeping all of the drivers close together so that they sound coherent then if you find that your sound stage is too low you can use the tweet trick.

The reason for keeping all of the drivers together is because that is how sound is produced. Think of a Saxophone playing a note. That note often has frequency components all over the spectrum. In other words that note needs help from all 3 speakers in your front stage. Now imagine sitting in the audience in front of this saxophone player. When he stands in front of you and plays a note you can close your eyes and you can point directly to where he is standing. Now imagine placing a microphone in front of the sax player and playing his note from several speakers pointing in different locations and different distances from you... Do you then think you'd still be able to tell where the sax player was standing?

Does this make sense?

[slc72005]

looks like bdubs was driving down the street beatin the stereo and people were throwing stones at the car hitting the A-piilar.

but you should put the speakers in my car:):)

seriously thou you i think you should try what errin said, just becasue it would be harder to do and i think you could do it, pls it would look pretty cool mounted up there.

[BH]

Getting your higher frequencies is going to make it image better. The lower frequencies in the kick is really wasting the kicks. You want to get the higher freq stuff on axis and equa-distant from the listening position for SQ. Depending on where you x-over the 8's you can put them in the trunk and you'd not be able to hear the difference TOO much... Being that your next size is 4.5 you probably won't be able to get the freq low enough to go to the back but you can EASILY get them in your door. The only trick is that when you put them in your door you REALLY need to figure out an enclosure for them inside the door. Don't just free air them unless they are designed for that. (I know that a door isn't free air but it looks like a really crappy aperiodic membrane box technically).

Anyway the question is what is more important to you imaging or midbass punch? Errin's option would give you a more live and up front sounding stage and tighter kick where as mine would require some hard work to get a good kick but would have better imaging for SQ competition type usage.

[bdubs767]

Brett got a few questions form what yea said...I am not tryign to flame you at all if it sounds like that just more or less me asking questions trying to understand things.

Getting your higher frequencies is going to make it image better. The lower frequencies in the kick is really wasting the kicks. You want to get the higher freq stuff on axis and equa-distant from the listening position for SQ.

The PLD in the kicks from L to R is 10" and in the pillars or das is about ~15 to 18". But with TA which I have for ever channel L and R indivdually, that could be fixed for the mid and tweet, will be a lot of frigging work tho.

Why I thought about placing the 8"ers in the Kicks is because I have been reading a lot of stuff over on ECA from some over there big time SQ champs...talking about how 100hz-400hz PLD is essentail. Also been reading a lot about how energy transfer can make you localize mids in doors, which everyone I know has heard that before, and even with tons of deadening and bracing still hard to get rid of it. And that fact that a AP enclosure down their would prob be more ideal situation for the 8" as the enclosure will be far firmer then any door mount.

Not sure about the PLD being cirtical from 100-400hz any truth to it?

Depending on where you x-over the 8's you can put them in the trunk and you'd not be able to hear the difference TOO much... Being that your next size is 4.5 you probably won't be able to get the freq low enough to go to the back but you can EASILY get them in your door. The only trick is that when you put them in your door you REALLY need to figure out an enclosure for them inside the door. Don't just free air them unless they are designed for that. (I know that a door isn't free air but it looks like a really crappy aperiodic membrane box technically).

they will be crossed at around 200hz for everyday and 160ish for critical listening so in the trunk is a NO NO as being crossed that high will cause problems.
If I were to do an AP enclosure it'd be like so http://www.elitecaraudio.com/article.php?sid=18
not the big ones that they sell the scan ap vents for.

Not sure how AP enclosure works as never heard one tho

Anyway the question is what is more important to you imaging or mid bass punch? Errin's option would give you a more live and up front sounding stage and tighter kick where as mine would require some hard work to get a good kick but would have better imaging for SQ competition type usage.

I'm crazed about dynamics of sound hence the three way over 2-way as I have never been able to get a two way to sounds as good when having a midrange basically dedicated to the vocals. Yes the three way is a pain in the ass now gettign it right but if done correctly sounds amazing.

[HoseHead]

That's a Chrysler minivan, ain't it? '96-'99.

Oops. Just reviewed the pix and see it's an Intrepid. Same years. Lotsa room everywhere in those.

In my TBird, I had the same dilemna. So I attached velcro to the tweets and placed them in several locations throughout the car. Then I listened for a few days, switched them to alternate locations and listened for a few more days. I settled on placing them where the A-pillar meets the roof. I put another set in the rear C-pillars. All tweets point toward the opposite side front seat. Left is left, right is right. No phase switching. I find this setup really separates the tweeter channels, making the cabin seem wider than it actually is.

Qty 4 KEF160 midbass drivers, each located in factory door panel positions and Qty 3 XMax12 subs firing toward the rear of the car round out my system.

Just me experience....

Who was chewing on your A-pillar?