Phoenix Gold Phorum

warning - this is probably going to be a long read so sorry for my rambling but thanks in advance for all opinions - they will all be greatly appreciated and considered

so lets look at all the equipment i have (not what im using now but the possibilities out of what i have

1) kenwood k-cd01 head unit
2) all the relevant cabling and fuseblocks and all other accesoies requiored to make a system work
3) 2 x xenon x200.4 amplifiers
4) JBL 1502D 15" subwoofer
5) MB Quart QSD components
6) PG EQ230 (thanks shaheen)

now ive been considering getting a 3" midrange and then using all that stuff above to run like this

head unit to EQ using only one set of interconnects - and then to first amp which will power the sub by bridging two channels of the amp - thie volume will be controlled by using a LPL44 - and then using the remaining two channels and the other amp with its 4 channels to run the QSD mid drivers as midbasses and then still using the passives to actually biamp that and run 200 watts apiece to the three inch midranges and then also the tweeters

i have also been thinking about the sub situation - if i get a far better sub eg a JBL GTI 12" or a more SQ orientated sub like a Morel Ultimo 12" - both of those need around 1000RMS or close to it - so ive been considering in that situation i would need to swop one of my x200.4's for a 1200.1 to run the sub (albeit with a decent bit of headroom) .... and im more after authoratative SQ bass and not massive SPL - i still want it upfront but it musnt be rowdy when the car is off or disappear when i am driving

under those circumstances i am left with 4 channels which i could use as two x 200watts for the midbasses - and the passives connected to the remaining two channels and feeding the 3" mids and tweeters as normal - but this definitely means that the tweeters and midranges are not overpowered which will probably assist in taming the slightly brighter characteristics of the MB Quart tweeters

so given the two possible configurations above which route seems a more sensible route to take cos even though the route of replacing the sub is more expensive it allows for more space for the amps in the hatch space of my car due to the smaller box of the 12" sub as opposed to the space requirements for the 15" sub

what does everyone think i should do (ps sub is not decided yet - and i cannot get the PG sub i would like - but i have been offered either the Morel or the JBL GTI sub at prices that i could consider - and here in South Africa i can easily find that 1200.1 and probably just as easily sell that x200.4 so i only have to add a marginal amount to upgrade to a 1200.1 (works out around $60 or so) - and i could sell that JBL and ive also got a JL audio 10W3v2 with enclosures for both at around $250 and then add in around $150 more so for a total close to $200 it will be a major upgrade on the sub

but in terms of the front stage which seems the better option - feeding each speaker its own channels of power and having lots of headroom and adjustability/flexibility - or restricting the entire frontstage to 4 channels only

in my opinion id swap out subs and get the 1200.1. use 2 chans of the 4chan to run the midbasses and the other 2 to power the mids/highs. jus my $.02 especially if its easily accessible to swap amps.. and subs..

thanks for the opinion - anyone else have any thoughts on the issue

okay - well i have decided to actually go for it with the x1200.1 and it has arrived together with the 3" mids from hertz - now just waiting for the Morel ultimo subwoofer - hop it sounds good

heres some pics

all the stuff thats arrived for the new install



x1200.1



3" mids - next to measuring tape so you can compare the size



rear of the mids



and then my good buddy shaheen is organizing me a Tbat



intending to run a very high quality rca cable to the tbat transmitter from the head unit and then just run the balanced line to the EQ230 that he organized for me - this should work very nicely IMHO

pic of that EQ230



what the ultimo looks like - it should arrive within the next two or three days



will update this with more pics when that sub arrives

sub has arrived - ive got it in a prefab enclosure for temporary while im gonna start doing the new install just to have music while im working on the install



still need to get some bulk packs of dynamat - and then also an ultima yellow top battery - and then also need to start getting the cables and distribution blocks

i got the sub second hand and im getting the grille from someone else - so should have that original ultimo grille soon - ive tried the sub out with the PG x200.4 - but that doesnt even tickle the sub at all - need to get that 1200.1 powering it as soon as possible to make it work even close to its potential

Wow how did I miss this thread?

Very nice gear. It should sound amazing

stipud wrote:Wow how did I miss this thread?

Very nice gear. It should sound amazing

thanks ...... as for the sound amazing bit im hoping it eventually will - for now its in a transition phase where everything just sounds upside down compared to how it did around a month ago

but theres still lots of work to do - will keep on posting my progress as i go along so ideas and constructive criticism will be welcome and appreciated

Did you get that sub installed? I wish that came in a DVC.

PIC's man!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

PIXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX......................

icehole wrote:Did you get that sub installed? I wish that came in a DVC.

i get what you mean about the DVC bit but im happy enough with it being a single voice coil - if you want to change the impedance's i think there is a 2ohm version available - so you can use two and series them for 4 ohms or use one to get more out of an amp in a lower impedance

and yep its in the car for now - heres a pic of the old install with the JBL 15" - this is how it looked last week



then this is how it looks now



just temporarily powering the entire system with the x200.4 for now - gonna work on it and maybe just install the monoblock too - but i need to remove everything soon to start the new install - it sounds very much like a system in a transition period (euphemism for terrible ) but im sure thats only whilst im powering a sub that needs 1000 watts rms with 400 watts rms - but the sub shows some promise - im sure it will sound terrific once i hook up the 1200.1

heres the amp with the Quart passives as it stands now - its all in a mess in terms of looks - but its all just so that i can have tunes just while im working on the proper install - im sure i can get it al nice and neat after a bit of elbow grease

PIC's man!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

PIXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX......................

you mean pics of the new install - thats gonna take a couple of months at the very least cos im only at the measurement of physical dimensions and planning stage - and fibreglassing isnt gonna be quick - this install is hopefully gonna be my final install ever in thi scar ie if i keep the car for 5 more years then i dont want anything to change in it for that 5 years unles sits an odd speaker replacement or so

or do you mean you cant see the pics that are already there - if so maybe its a firewall blocking them ???

Well, your temp install looks better than most of our completed installs... so, kudos!

That car has no trunk space at all, does it?

stipud wrote:Well, your temp install looks better than most of our completed installs... so, kudos!

That car has no trunk space at all, does it?

well yeah with the 15" there absolutely no trunk space cos even though its a daily driver i didnt need any trunk space cos this is one of 4 cars at my disposal - so if i need to cart things around - just got to use another car

so the new install is gonna just be concentrating on looking great - and having everything to fit cos its a lot of gear that needs to go in ie the two amps the EQ and the sub as well as a cd changer and the passive crossovers too - all that in a smallish hatch

the good looks on the temp install are mainly cos of the previous install - and whilst that was pleasing to the eye - i think that the JBL sub was not transparent enough because of its output when the car was setup for pure SQ - you could notice that the sub bass was coming from the back - im hoping to change that with the higher quality sub

if i can design everything to actually give me a bit of occasional trunk space then its a huge bonus

I understand your plight... the search for transparent bass is a toughy! I finally found it with the RSD Comp woofer in my install. That sub brings a grin to my face every day!

I have heard excellent reviews about the Ultimo as well. I run "Morel" speakers (PG Ti Elites) up front and love them as well.

stipud wrote:I understand your plight... the search for transparent bass is a toughy! I finally found it with the RSD Comp woofer in my install. That sub brings a grin to my face every day!

I have heard excellent reviews about the Ultimo as well. I run "Morel" speakers (PG Ti Elites) up front and love them as well.

would have loved to try out the Rsdc woofers - maybe if this ultimo doesnt work out ....... hey i havent even installed the setup yet and im already dreaming ahead - but i can get those here at decent prices

as for those Ti elites ive only heard great things about them - but i doubt id be able to find a pair in my neck of the woods - i was considering a pair of Morel supremo tweeters instead of going three way cos the Quart passive is bi-ampable so i can run the 4 channel amp on it but the Quart tweeter has a 6 ohm impedance so it limits the tweeters i can try - but the supremo is also 6 ohm so i can go that route if the 3" midrange and quart tweeter dont work out like i had hoped - but that is helluva pricey - cos that supremo range is hectic - so im only going to keep half an eye on that option for now - been spending too much on this audio lark

but im hoping also that the EQ230 will dial out any harshness in the Quart tweets - they are very airy and detailed but they do have an extra bite if not tamed properly - so if the EQ doesnt help get me perfect tonal accuracy as well then i would have no option but to maybe try out that set of tweeters as a last resort (albeit pricey) - but hey im just gonna take it one step at a time - install and tune - then decide what i need to do

I would recommend against using the Quart crossover for other brands of speakers. Even if you impedance match, there will still be slight variations that change the crossover slope frequencies. Not to mention, sometimes the crossovers will have notch filters in place to filter out certain resonance noises in the matching speaker set.

For example, the Ti Elite crossover has a lot of specific filtering for the components. It's the main reason I can't run them actively; because I get some really harsh noises around the crossover frequency. For the same reason, you couldn't use other speakers with the Elite crossover. Even if it is perfectly impedance and sensitivity matched, you would still have the filtering in the wrong place, so it would cut away at a perfectly good sounding frequency on the speaker, while not affecting regions where the other speakers would need filtering.

As such, for running mixed sets of speakers, I almost always recommend running them active.

stipud wrote:I would recommend against using the Quart crossover for other brands of speakers. Even if you impedance match, there will still be slight variations that change the crossover slope frequencies. Not to mention, sometimes the crossovers will have notch filters in place to filter out certain resonance noises in the matching speaker set.

For example, the Ti Elite crossover has a lot of specific filtering for the components. It's the main reason I can't run them actively; because I get some really harsh noises around the crossover frequency. For the same reason, you couldn't use other speakers with the Elite crossover. Even if it is perfectly impedance and sensitivity matched, you would still have the filtering in the wrong place, so it would cut away at a perfectly good sounding frequency on the speaker, while not affecting regions where the other speakers would need filtering.

As such, for running mixed sets of speakers, I almost always recommend running them active.

agreed - but for now the problem area is the tweeter - plus the Morel has a far lower frequency response as well as resonant frequency - so id be using the best bits of both worlds ie the midbass of the quarts with the treble of the morels - and since i would be crossing the morels over higher than they are designed to be used i will actually be straining them less - or so the theory would seem to go

but i agree wholeheartedly with going active if i can find some space to fit a crossover - anyways the morel tweeter for now is too expensive so its only a contingency plan - hopefully if i can use a good ear to tune the setup (with a healthy dollop of RTA assistance ) i wont reach that stage of needing to replace tweeters - also before i go three way im gonna hookup that EQ and see what i can do with the front stage as is since i could always get my money back on the hertz midranges by selling them

wow - i dunno if im just very unfit or just getting old - but i decided to install the EQ and the 1200.1 amp just to see if they work well and check how the car sounds with them in - so i started work and i can only manage an hour of doing stuff before i need to sit down and take a break LOL

i keep on telling myself that im stopping to plan out my next move - but the fact is i am not as young as i once was and im getting tired very easily

anyways on to the pics

getting rid of all the excess wiring that i dont need - heres the 200.4 and Quart passives - gonna just biamp the mids and tweeters off the passives for now - so the 200.4 will be powering only the component set



now working in the hatch - the EQ mounted and amp being prepared



amp mounted as well



so now all i have to do is sort out the wiring and the remote wire must get plugged into the relay - and then its just a matter of putting in a fuse at the front - and im sure i will be starting to tune in around another two hours time unless i stop for another break before then LOL

remember though this is all temporary - just to see if it all works - will be starting the real install when i have everything ie the dynamat extreme and also the tbat from shaheen

Damn, those Quart passives are huge.

Hey dude

no need for a relay on the remote, plug remote from deck into remote on the EQ, then take 2 cables from DR port on Eq to the amps.

No more Mr Relay .......

Nice vinyl work!