Best PG Amp Series?

maka78 · Post by **maka78** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:53 pm

Ever since I got into the car audio scene, I have used and loved the TI series amps.

Currently have a 2 TI400.2s powering two TI6 Elite components (front & back). Also have a TI800.1 which I had to power my 2 Infinity Kappa Perfects (Also have the TI 15 Farad Powercore if it's of any importance).

I am in the process of changing a couple of amps around and would like some input. I switched my TI800.1 with a Cadence DCA-2500 and switching my Infinity Kappa Perfects with 2 TI12D Elites.

I was thinking of switching my TI400.2 which powers the fronts with a ti500.4 (or zx475ti) (bridged to give me 250x2 for the front components) so the front components are more powerful than the rear and I have a more balanced sound (I think this theoretically works, input your thoughts if you have any).

I've also been thinking of switching both TI amps to a Xenon 200.4.

Should I switch to a ti500.4 in the front and maybe a ti600.2 for the rear or get a xenon 200.4? Maybe another PG series which is better than both of these (RSD??).

Let me know what you think on any of this. Thanks in advance.

denim · Post by **denim** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:36 am

Not sure if there can be one best. I am sure plenty of people have their favorites, and I am sure one can argue for the case of one series over another due to certain features or design.

culzero · Post by **culzero** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:46 am

I would say the best PG amp was the ZPA series. But that's just my two cents.

dako · Post by **dako** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:00 am

I'm a huge fan of the Titanium series for obvious reasons (sexy, high db crossover slopes), but the Tantrum line does it for me. I've got an extremely limited amount of space to work with and the small footprints do it for me. Nothing like being able to get about 1450 watts out of something just a little bit bigger than a loaf of ciabatta bread!

Post by **Bfowler** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:17 am

everyone has their favs...im partial to the xenon's for their big power, feature loaded fan cooled hotness

maka78 · Post by **maka78** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:20 am

dako, from what I heard when I was getting into the car audio scene and decided to go with the TI series is that the Tantrum series were inferior to the TI series - like a Mercedes and a Cadillac typa thing (no offense to anyone on this, just an old saying).

I personally have not heard the difference, but do you notice a difference between the Tantrum/Titanium series amps?

Post by **Bfowler** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:35 am

the differences between the tantrum and ti?

-fan cooled
-power ratings on the 2 and 4 channels were lower (the ta600.4 and ti600.4 say similar on paper....the ti will make about 25% more power when you hook it up to a DMM)

the tantrums dont a as high end of a output section, and less imput capacitance

the ti crossovers are slightly better

so i guess on all acounts the ti line was more highend.

that tantrum line is still a very solid nice sounding amp, and it think what dako likes is the small footprint, ease of install and price point. all made the tantrum a very desirable amp.

i would akin them to different types of ladies. the ti is a lady that goes to theater, elegant, black dress impress your parents type.

the tantrum is a drunken college girl type. both have their places

maka78 · Post by **maka78** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:07 am

Bfowler wrote: i would akin them to different types of ladies. the ti is a lady that goes to theater, elegant, black dress impress your parents type.

the tantrum is a drunken college girl type. both have their places

haha, that's hilarious... in real life, I would go for the tantrum girl in this phase of my life and the ti girl later on when I'm older. Guess for amp life, I'd take the TI amp.

Let me rephrase my original question then... what amp (or 2 amps) would power my 2 TI6 Elites best? Size (and I guess price, up to a limit) doesn't matter, I would just want loudest without ANY sacrifice in sound quality. I tried hooking up one TI400.2 in 2 ohm mode by connecting the front and rear speakers in parallel - I thought it didn't sound as clean as having two TI400.2s at 4 ohms each.

thedeal7235 · Post by **thedeal7235** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:12 am

if u have 2 ti400.2s why dont you bridge each one to each amp, run a yadapter and then its in stereo-? jmo

maka78 · Post by **maka78** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:24 am

thedeal7235 wrote:if u have 2 ti400.2s why dont you bridge each one to each amp, run a yadapter and then its in stereo-? jmo

I'm not quite understanding what to do. What is a y adapter and how would I hook it up? Can you please elaborate?

**EDIT**

Figured out what a y-adapter is, lol... When I bridged the four speakers into one amp, I still ran left/right stereo (lost front/back), it just didn't sound as clear as running two amps. It might be in my head though... should there be a SQ difference in running components in 2 ohm or 4 ohm loads?

thedeal7235 · Post by **thedeal7235** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:13 pm

if u have 2 ti 400.2s in the car , which are both for fronts? or if u have two ti400.2, and one is for the sub then u cant do it, but if not, then what u do , is u take ur left front 6.5 bridge that to one ti 400.2, take ur right 6.5 and bridge that to the 2nd ti 400.2, take ur 2 female to male yadapters, one connects to the left rca, lets say to the left front 6.5 400.2 output, and same deal for the second, however this would in theory give u 400rms per speaker, unless ur using the passive xovers, then ud be splitting 400 watts rms to each side, but even in this case u have 2 be careful, not to use ur gains, the elites like alot of power, but distortion will kill any speaker, so i would suggest turning gains down all the way, and line driver as well to listen and then begin to increase line driver( if u have one), but even so would NOT suggest increasing the gains, wish i had 2 ti 400.2 to try on my elites

thedeal7235 · Post by **thedeal7235** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:15 pm

i went back to the begining of ur posts, if ur running both sets passive( xover that came with them), id suggest get rid of the rear set and try what i was descibing on the front , or u could wire them all 2gether to drop the load on one 400.2, triaal and error, but be CAREFUL all gains turned all the way down, i think 2 400.2s running front would be best-jmo, though good luck and have FUN!

maka78 · Post by **maka78** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:42 pm

So what you're saying is to have both amps set for the front TI6 Elites and have the rear elites powered by, let's say, the head unit? This should give me a nicer sound?

This might be a stupid question, but why would 400w to each side with a passive crossover not really be 400w to each speaker (as opposed to an active crossover)?

What exactly is the difference b/w a passive and active crossover?

Thanks for your input!

thedeal7235 · Post by **thedeal7235** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:52 pm

passives help to protect, were also designed for optimium performance, of the speakers they were designed for, however, they tend to drain some of your power, so ive experienced, trial and error, lots of questions here etc., if u have 2 speakers(let say left front side) and they both come off the input of a passive and ur amp is @ 100 by 2 @4ohms(assuming ur components are 4ohm, although ive seen image dynamics @ 2ohm) and bostons i think usually @ 3ohm, then, techinically speaking each speaker is getting 50 watts, or 100 watts divide by 2, or ur left front is receiving 100 watts-u have 2 speakers for ur left front,
in active ur not hooking up an input for 2 drivers, instead ur hooking the input/output for each driver, thus more power, and u have to have external( although ive used the pg amps internal xover, must push in ur multiply by 10 switch for your tweets, im sure someone else here is by far more better at explaing this than me-

maka78 · Post by **maka78** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:12 pm

Thanks for the explanation...

Follow up question: Since the recommended RMS wattage for the TI6 Elites is 300w, does that mean that the max the midbass (or the tweeter) can take is 150w? Basically, what is the max RMS you can hook up to the TI6 midbass (or tweeter) without blowing it from too much power if you go active?

thedeal7235 · Post by **thedeal7235** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:30 pm

i have hooked the tweet up as high as 150rms(ti600.2), and no problems, ive had the ti 6.5 @ 300.2 on the 600 as well, but i like them better at the 250 by2 bridged on my ti 500.4

CarAudioGuru · Post by **CarAudioGuru** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:16 am

Best PG amplfiers EVER. ZPA. Also biggest pain in the ass,

Best series of amplifers EVER built for car audio

MS Series!!

Indestructible. Killer build (especially MS2125) Great design, simple, elegant.

That would be MY choice.

gkitching · Post by **gkitching** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:49 pm

Bfowler wrote:i would akin them to different types of ladies. the ti is a lady that goes to theater, elegant, black dress impress your parents type.

the tantrum is a drunken college girl type. both have their places

You have such a way with words.

marko · Post by **marko** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:57 pm

CarAudioGuru wrote:Best PG amplfiers EVER. ZPA. Also biggest pain in the ass,

Best series of amplifers EVER built for car audio

MS Series!!

Indestructible. Killer build (especially MS2125) Great design, simple, elegant.

That would be MY choice.

i just sold my pair of ms2125's, i think i my regret this some day, i still have the 2250's though

my next install will consist of a pair of route66's both bridged to 3 channels each and running the front end only, hope these can match the magic of the ms2125's

flogger11 · Post by **flogger11** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:04 am

CarAudioGuru wrote:Best PG amplfiers EVER. ZPA. Also biggest pain in the ass,

Best series of amplifers EVER built for car audio

MS Series!!

Indestructible. Killer build (especially MS2125) Great design, simple, elegant.

That would be MY choice.

IMNSHO the ZPA series are the best amps ever made, period. ZPA pain in the ass?? How so?

HoseHead · Post by **HoseHead** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:33 am

gkitching wrote:
Bfowler wrote:i would akin them to different types of ladies. the ti is a lady that goes to theater, elegant, black dress impress your parents type.

the tantrum is a drunken college girl type. both have their places
You have such a way with words.

And Fowler knows. Both types follow him around like the stink on a polecat's ass.

HH

CarAudioGuru · Post by **CarAudioGuru** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:39 am

ZPA's HAVE to have a Line Driver (TBA??) of some type as their input gain structure was very low. Like 2-8 volts, instead of the more normal .2 -4 volts that 99% of all other amplifiers built have.

Remember that this was the "KRELL/Mark Levinsion" of car amplifers.

And becasue of the cool looking plex cover it was VERY easy to accidently drop small little wires inside (turns out that was the #1 failure, BTW).

I also added a "Failsafe " feature - an ultra small mirco switch under the one of the screws that held the lid down. So when you were adjusting the amplifier, you had to know that you needed to insert a screw so the remote turn on worked. It was in the manual.

We shipped 10 Pre-Pro ZPA-03 to retialers all over the USA. The "Cream of the Crop" so to speak.

9 amps were returned telling us that they were DOA and didn't work.

Not ONE dealer called and asked "WTF?", they just returned them.

It was the micro switch deal. They had pulled off the top to look inside and make adjustments, and it wouldn't turn on.

So when dealers ask me "You think we're stupid? I always respond with "I don't think so,....I KNOW so!!"

Trust me I have LOTS of retarded retailer stories.

Post by **stipud** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:46 am

Brian with a classy girlfriend?

That would be the day...

flogger11 · Post by **flogger11** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:25 am

Other than the minor requirement for a line driver, the ZPA and MS series require the same power level commitments, ie 1/0, alternator, etc. PG built upon the MS line when creating the ZPA's! I mean, look at this animal!

CarAudioGuru · Post by **CarAudioGuru** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:45 am

ZPA's are still the BEST under $2,000 car audio amplifer ever built. Not quite up the HC-100 or THESIS HV Venti

But this amplifer is now ONLY $12,500.00 retial. So not in the same ball park