Phoenix Gold Phorum

Hi,

I recently acquired an '04 chevy tahoe and need to build a system in it.

I loved my old XS2500's but sadly they were sold with my old car, so I was thinking of picking up some new RSD amps for this install.

RSd 1200.1 -----> 2 IDMax 12's sealed in 1.5 ft^3 each
RSd 250.2 -----> CDT HD-65 Components

I'm sure the new RSd amps are probably made in korea or some such place, but sadly few amps outside of zapco reference and arc se seem to be made in the states anymore, and I can't afford to spend $3,000 on amps. If I'm going to buy an import, might as well be a PG.

Do you guys think the 250.2 would be enough or the CDT HD-65's with only 87 watts per side? Are these new PG amps anywhere as good as the old xs and tantrum lines?

Thanks for the help,

RDWM

I use the rsd1200.1's and they do what they are told! Great amps ! plus they are designed in the states and then made elsewhere.

For the money its hard to beat IMO

Why not use old school amps?

There seems to be a flood of zx amps for sale lately..

personally just never been sold on the sound quality of the newer amps,

but then again don't listen to mp3, ipod etc, only original cd's in the auto...

speedsmith wrote:personally just never been sold on the sound quality of the newer amps

Interesting, because the RSd circuitry design is the same tried and true PG design in the MS, M, ZX, Ti and Xenon lines...

RollsDownWindowsManually wrote:
I'm sure the new RSd amps are probably made in korea or some such place, but sadly few amps outside of zapco reference and arc se seem to be made in the states anymore, and I can't afford to spend $3,000 on amps. If I'm going to buy an import, might as well be a PG.

Do you guys think the 250.2 would be enough or the CDT HD-65's with only 87 watts per side? Are these new PG amps anywhere as good as the old xs and tantrum lines?

Thanks for the help,

RDWM

sadly zapco has been bought out within the last 2 months also.

but dont fret, PG amps are still engineered here (built in china) the failure rate is the lowest that pg has ever had. oddly enough the ti line was the highest!


as far as circuitry goes, the rsd is a superior amp to the xs and tantrums (im a long time xs collector) the rsd has much more capacitance for the power supply, and the 87 watts a side is 2006 CEA compliant...so if you held the xs2500 to the same standard, they would be a lot closer in output then you would think.

i think you would be very happy with the rsd's.

fuzzysnuggleduck wrote:

speedsmith wrote:personally just never been sold on the sound quality of the newer amps

Interesting, because the RSd circuitry design is the same tried and true PG design in the MS, M, ZX, Ti and Xenon lines...

As I'm sure they use the same quality components

Hey that being the case, swap out your M's for some updated rsd's

speedsmith wrote:

fuzzysnuggleduck wrote:

speedsmith wrote:personally just never been sold on the sound quality of the newer amps

Interesting, because the RSd circuitry design is the same tried and true PG design in the MS, M, ZX, Ti and Xenon lines...

As I'm sure they use the same quality components

Hey that being the case, swap out your M's for some updated rsd's

The 500.4 uses TIP35C/36C transistors.
The 300.4 uses 2N6488/2N6490 TO-220 transistors.

Referenced from here: http://phoenixphorum.com/rsd500-4-or-x200-4-vt1472.html

While I don't own an RSd for reference, I'd be very shocked to learn that the other components (caps, resistors, etc.) weren't up to snuff with "classic" PG lines such as the M, MS, etc.

I already have amps I like. But, if I was going to buy brand new amps I would most certainly consider the RSd line.

ive owned 3 rsd amps, since the begining of the year-1 500.4, 2 1200.1( sold one of my 1200.1 to khpower, ive had NO ISSUES; just wish u could bypass the internal xover on the mono 1200.1, however u can on the 500.4-( i also own a le octane, ti600.2(currently using for my ti 6.5), a ti500.4(currently using for tweets, and 6.5 rear fill -all active), and then a rsd 1200.1 for my subs, and a new, never used ti 1200.1(draws too much amperage for my audi a4, thast why i use the class d 1200.1-cant beat it for the money-i think-

TIP35C/36C transistors.
The 300.4 uses 2N6488/2N6490 TO-220 transistors
are these similiar to some of the old series? what seies also used these?

Bfowler wrote: sadly zapco has been bought out within the last 2 months also.

but dont fret, PG amps are still engineered here (built in china) the failure rate is the lowest that pg has ever had. oddly enough the ti line was the highest!


as far as circuitry goes, the rsd is a superior amp to the xs and tantrums (im a long time xs collector) the rsd has much more capacitance for the power supply, and the 87 watts a side is 2006 CEA compliant...so if you held the xs2500 to the same standard, they would be a lot closer in output then you would think.

i think you would be very happy with the rsd's.

Well, if they are as good as the XS amps I don't think I have any reservations about buying them. My only concern is the just sending 87 watts to my front stage (that's the regular rating, cema is 75 x 2). Maybe I will look for a bi-ample component set and go with a 500.4 instead.

yeah id agree, about a year ago i used the xs6600 in my work truck, i like the rsd better, jmho-

Why not go with a xenon 200.2 for your components

Capital_M wrote:Why not go with a xenon 200.2 for your components

Actually, I think I might get the pioneer deh-p800prs head unit, which has a built in 3 way crossover and just run my components with seperate channels of the 4 channel amp. I suppose I would rather use a pair of RSd's than a mix of xenon and RSd, for the sake of uniform looks.

thanks for the help everyone, one more thing,

Anyone know what maximum power wire size the 1200.1 and 500.4 RSd's will accept on their screw-down terminals? I'm trying to tell if I can use 4 awg after my d-block or if I need to stick to 8. Thanks.

Definitely 4AWG. The 1200.1 should accept 1/0.

definetly 4 gauge, northing less, ( i dont think the rsd would accept 1/0 gauge) b/c the input holes for power and ground, appear to be "bore" out to exactly 4 gauge

the rsd's DO NOT accept 1/0 in

in fact, if errin hadn't stepped in they would have all been released with only 8awg terminals (they were trying to save a few pennies.....)

tell me about it, u have to literally strip ur power wire, and DONT let it get fraid in anyway, or it will NOT go in, but its just made me better @ stripping(wires-that is)

Bfowler wrote:the rsd's DO NOT accept 1/0 in

in fact, if errin hadn't stepped in they would have all been released with only 8awg terminals (they were trying to save a few pennies.....)

I find it funny that the 1/0 PG amp kit(Akitone) shows the rsd 1200.1 on the cover of the box.

Indeed they accept 4 gauge and nowhere close to 1/0

Bfowler wrote:the rsd's DO NOT accept 1/0 in

in fact, if errin hadn't stepped in they would have all been released with only 8awg terminals (they were trying to save a few pennies.....)

I wish they were not trying to pinch in areas like that.

denim wrote:

Bfowler wrote:the rsd's DO NOT accept 1/0 in

in fact, if errin hadn't stepped in they would have all been released with only 8awg terminals (they were trying to save a few pennies.....)

I wish they were not trying to pinch in areas like that.

I agree. How much more money would it actually be to add a little metal and to buy I bigger bit for the boring? Nice amps regardless and honestly 4 gauge is more than enough IMO but I would love these amps bored to 1/0 and come with added 4 and 8 gauge reducers .

4 awg is fine for me as I will be running a distribution block to allow me to split power to the second amp anyway. An 8" run of 4 awg isn't going to cause a big voltage drop problem with the current draw of an rsd1200.1.

Well I went to my dealer today to try and pick up some RSd's and he strongly steered me toward the Zapco DC reference line instead. He said several of his distributors had stopped carrying PG because of a decline in quality in recent years. Granted this guy is a zapco dealer and not really a PG Dealer, but said he could get the PG's no problem if I really wanted them.

The dealer wants me to run a zapo dc reference 1100.1 and 360.4 instead of the RSd 1200.1 and 500.4. The zapco's are about twice as expensive at $1500 vs $700 for the pair of PG's. He says that since I'm spending money on good speakers why ruin that with "mediocre amps". Not to sound like a douche, but I guess the profit margin on the zapcos is better than the PG's, even though his zapco prices are about 75% MSRP.

He also steered me away from the Pioneer HU, tried to sell me on a SACD sony unit (MEXDV2000), and reccomended that I use the zapco DSP system instead instead of the pioneer HU's crossvers saying the zapco would be "much better quality". I politely listened to his sales pitch but SACD is a dead format IMHO, and I don't know if I can justify spending an extra grand on stuff that frankly, probably won't yeild audibly better results (especially considering the 360.4 zapco does 50x4 vs. 85x4 for the PG).

I went ahead and ordered my idmax 12's and ID XS 6.5 mids and tweets, along with CXS 6" coaxes for my rear doors, and told him I'd have to think it over on the zapco amps and sony HU.

The zapco DC ref amps are made offshore, so I guess my thought process is: why spend double for amps that are still made offshore and are rated for less power? I realize the zapco amps might have an edge in regard to build quality, but is this something I could differentiate between in a double blind test? No way. Seems like I'd mostly be paying for the zapco name.

So I guess I will tell them to go ahead and order my PG's, despite his hard sales pitch for the zapcos The guy was really nice and did a good job of pitching the zapcos. He even let me listen to his car which has a 5.1 system with 5 zapco DC ref amps and all morel speakers. It did sound pretty cool, but mostly due to the 5.1 imaging rather than some magical SACD sound properties in my opinion. I didn't really find the placement of some instruments behind me all that great compard to a solid front stage for music.

Anyway, I just wish the dealer would've been more enthusiastic about ordering PG's for me but he seemed to really be dogging PG products as of late.

Sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders and you can see through the hype and get down to what matters.

As far as I know, there have been no "reliability" problems with the RSd line. The Xenon line did have an early run production issue, but not the RSd.

As stated earlier in the thread, they have very similar circuit design to the MS series (the A/B models) and they use high quality components. I'm not going to say they are better than Zapco amps because, frankly, I don't know shit about Zapco.

Less power for twice the price... the only way I can see Zapco being the better choice here is if you're a big Zapco fan, or you have some hard data that proves the Zapcos are twice the amp the RSd's are.

SACD is dope in terms of quality, but it's not going anywhere. That and the fact that you're talking about a car, not an acoustically designed environment. The higher quality of the digital encoding will likely be all but lost in a car.