Phoenix Gold Phorum

My x1200.1 came in today, aswell as my 4 rsd10s (thank you Harold!)

Question is, my x600.1 had two birthsheets, one being like 200watts higher then the other. The x1200.1 only has the one at 1229 watts. Does this mean it was not fixed as in its from the original batch?

Maybe one of the PG guys can chime in.

My understanding was that all the Xenon's sold at the sale had been gone over by a PG tech before being sold. I understood that this meant the original Xenon issue had been resolved on them (cold solder joints, was it?).

Someone else that KNOWS for sure should say.

the 600.1s were a unique case. the first batch of birth sheets were generic sheets made by the build house. the second higher set were pg's birth sheets. they only did this because they realized the 600.1s were so underrated. the 1200's didn't get this treatment because it was unnecessary

How underrated are the 600.1's? If you say 200w more than first birthsheet, they should be making over 800 watts!!?

Alotta them are making around 800 watts.......

The 1200.1's seem to be a bit closer to the 1200 mark though.......

wow, that's pretty nice for the price. Maybe my brother will pick one up, I see they have plenty of those on e-bay.

mine birth sheeted at 844. the 600.1 was definitely the work horse of the line up

oook, i was just confused as some people say the 1200.1s were making 1400+

Maybe they're saying that for the TI series? I think those were making a lot of wattage.

Capital_M wrote:oook, i was just confused as some people say the 1200.1s were making 1400+

Not the Xenons. They make little more than rated power.

Bfowler wrote:mine birth sheeted at 844. the 600.1 was definitely the work horse of the line up

So is it possible the birthsheet I got with mine (612 watts) was the wrong birthsheet??? It would make a lot of sense why the amp ate up a few subs along the way. I was almost on my way to getting rid of it until the PG tech told me to go with a 2 sub set up. Ever since...the amp has been GREAT!!!

Funny thing is...the PG tech is the one that told me that the Xenon 10D2 sub by itself would run nicely on the X600.1, so I did it. The sub lasted for about 3 months until I got to crank it one day...POOF!!! It also ate up an Alpine Type-R and an 800 watt rms Pioneer SPL sub. That is when I was at my breaking point. Contacted the PG tech and told him what was going on and he finally suggests going with 2 subs that can handle at least 400 watts each as the X600.1 is underrated and can produce up to 900 watts in the right situation. So...I was able to get two more Xenon 10D2's and got everythind wired so it's running a 2 ohm load at the amp and it's been fine ever since.

Bfowler wrote:mine birth sheeted at 844. the 600.1 was definitely the work horse of the line up

Birth shat?

birth sharted

allmet33 wrote:So is it possible the birthsheet I got with mine (612 watts) was the wrong birthsheet??? It would make a lot of sense why the amp ate up a few subs along the way. I was almost on my way to getting rid of it until the PG tech told me to go with a 2 sub set up. Ever since...the amp has been GREAT!!!

Funny thing is...the PG tech is the one that told me that the Xenon 10D2 sub by itself would run nicely on the X600.1, so I did it. The sub lasted for about 3 months until I got to crank it one day...POOF!!! It also ate up an Alpine Type-R and an 800 watt rms Pioneer SPL sub. That is when I was at my breaking point. Contacted the PG tech and told him what was going on and he finally suggests going with 2 subs that can handle at least 400 watts each as the X600.1 is underrated and can produce up to 900 watts in the right situation. So...I was able to get two more Xenon 10D2's and got everythind wired so it's running a 2 ohm load at the amp and it's been fine ever since.

On music, a bit of extra power is not going to blow speakers. If your gains were set properly, I don't think it would blow any of the woofers you listed.

http://phoenixphorum.com/gain-setting-w ... vt280.html

I'm going to guess here... you probably have bass boost turned up pretty high? You should turn your bass boost off completely, as it only causes distortion and clipping, which destroys speakers.

stipud wrote:

allmet33 wrote:So is it possible the birthsheet I got with mine (612 watts) was the wrong birthsheet??? It would make a lot of sense why the amp ate up a few subs along the way. I was almost on my way to getting rid of it until the PG tech told me to go with a 2 sub set up. Ever since...the amp has been GREAT!!!

Funny thing is...the PG tech is the one that told me that the Xenon 10D2 sub by itself would run nicely on the X600.1, so I did it. The sub lasted for about 3 months until I got to crank it one day...POOF!!! It also ate up an Alpine Type-R and an 800 watt rms Pioneer SPL sub. That is when I was at my breaking point. Contacted the PG tech and told him what was going on and he finally suggests going with 2 subs that can handle at least 400 watts each as the X600.1 is underrated and can produce up to 900 watts in the right situation. So...I was able to get two more Xenon 10D2's and got everythind wired so it's running a 2 ohm load at the amp and it's been fine ever since.

On music, a bit of extra power is not going to blow speakers. If your gains were set properly, I don't think it would blow any of the woofers you listed.

http://phoenixphorum.com/gain-setting-w ... vt280.html

I'm going to guess here... you probably have bass boost turned up pretty high? You should turn your bass boost off completely, as it only causes distortion and clipping, which destroys speakers.

Actually, no...I think it was more about the gain being set wrong to be honest. The first sub I fried because being hasty, I tapped into the signal at the OEM sub with a hi/lo converter (thought I could get away with this until I got my head unit in) and found out that was the wrong thing to do.

With the Alpine Type-R...I think it was trial and error because all the other settings on the amp have clicks to follow so you know where it stands, but...the input sensitivity doesn't so you have to guess where you think it needs to be. I've got a Pioneer head unit and the output on the RCA's is 2 volts.

I was considering using my PG SLD44 bass processor to up the voltage to 8 volts and go from there. What you think?

allmet33 wrote:Actually, no...I think it was more about the gain being set wrong to be honest. The first sub I fried because being hasty, I tapped into the signal at the OEM sub with a hi/lo converter (thought I could get away with this until I got my head unit in) and found out that was the wrong thing to do.

With the Alpine Type-R...I think it was trial and error because all the other settings on the amp have clicks to follow so you know where it stands, but...the input sensitivity doesn't so you have to guess where you think it needs to be. I've got a Pioneer head unit and the output on the RCA's is 2 volts.

I was considering using my PG SLD44 bass processor to up the voltage to 8 volts and go from there. What you think?

Have a look at the link I posted... it tells you how to set gains to EXACTLY where they need to be.

For example, you would play a 60Hz test tone, set volume to 3/4, disable all boost and EQ, and then measure the gains at:

square root ( 800 watts * 4 ohms ) = 56.5 volts.

800 watts is a good guesstimate if your amp didn't come with the second birthsheet. Since Xe.load balances power output between 1-4 ohms, you want to set gains assuming 4 ohms instead of your actual subwoofer impedance (2 ohms).

You might find this a little too quiet on music, since bass is not normally recorded at levels that people expect in a boomy subwoofer setup. For this, you can use an LPL. It lets you lower your amp gains remotely, so what you can do is set your gains with a multimeter using the LPL at a known location (50% for example). This way, you can turn the gains down AND UP remotely, so you can offset for quieter recordings. The only caveat here is that you have to be very mature when you do this, and never leave the knob cranked up all the time. You must turn it down for louder bassier recordings, otherwise you can clip and cause speaker/amp damage again.

A linedriver like the SLD is a good investment in improving sound quality, since it lowers the noisefloor by making the signal more resistant to radiated noise. Installed properly, they should always be up front as close to the headunit as possible. And a linedriver should NEVER make your system louder, assuming the gains are set properly.

I would suggest setting your gains with the DMM as per the link stipud posted before you go out and get a line driver. Once you've measured your output at the speaker terminals, you'll have a better idea of whether you need a line driver and how to make sure you're installing and setting it up properly.

stipud wrote:

allmet33 wrote:Actually, no...I think it was more about the gain being set wrong to be honest. The first sub I fried because being hasty, I tapped into the signal at the OEM sub with a hi/lo converter (thought I could get away with this until I got my head unit in) and found out that was the wrong thing to do.

With the Alpine Type-R...I think it was trial and error because all the other settings on the amp have clicks to follow so you know where it stands, but...the input sensitivity doesn't so you have to guess where you think it needs to be. I've got a Pioneer head unit and the output on the RCA's is 2 volts.

I was considering using my PG SLD44 bass processor to up the voltage to 8 volts and go from there. What you think?

Have a look at the link I posted... it tells you how to set gains to EXACTLY where they need to be.

For example, you would play a 60Hz test tone, set volume to 3/4, disable all boost and EQ, and then measure the gains at:

square root ( 800 watts * 4 ohms ) = 56.5 volts.

800 watts is a good guesstimate if your amp didn't come with the second birthsheet. Since Xe.load balances power output between 1-4 ohms, you want to set gains assuming 4 ohms instead of your actual subwoofer impedance (2 ohms).

You might find this a little too quiet on music, since bass is not normally recorded at levels that people expect in a boomy subwoofer setup. For this, you can use an LPL. It lets you lower your amp gains remotely, so what you can do is set your gains with a multimeter using the LPL at a known location (50% for example). This way, you can turn the gains down AND UP remotely, so you can offset for quieter recordings. The only caveat here is that you have to be very mature when you do this, and never leave the knob cranked up all the time. You must turn it down for louder bassier recordings, otherwise you can clip and cause speaker/amp damage again.

Yeah...I lookin at that link now and downloading the test tones.

Thanks for the info by the way...I have no interest in frying any more subs, unless it's to get the new RSdC subs.

fuzzysnuggleduck wrote:I would suggest setting your gains with the DMM as per the link stipud posted before you go out and get a line driver. Once you've measured your output at the speaker terminals, you'll have a better idea of whether you need a line driver and how to make sure you're installing and setting it up properly.

Actually...I've already got the line driver as I was going to use it to add a sub to the factory system in my Saturn Outlook.

I am definitely going to follow the steps Stipud suggested and moving forward from there.

fuzzysnuggleduck wrote:I would suggest setting your gains with the DMM as per the link stipud posted before you go out and get a line driver. Once you've measured your output at the speaker terminals, you'll have a better idea of whether you need a line driver and how to make sure you're installing and setting it up properly.

Actually...I've already got the line driver as I was going to use it to add a sub to the factory system in my Saturn Outlook.

I am definitely going to follow the steps Stipud suggested and moving forward from there.

Once you do what Stipud says you will never go back! Its very easy and very reliable and yiou can set up amp systems in no time really if you have a plan on what your going to do.

I have a question regarding this Stipud. You say to adjust his setup on the best load of the amp which would be 4 ohms. My rsd1200.1 I set using the impendence of the 4 ohm load I would be using on each amp and adjusted using the calculations for 4 ohm.

The 1200.1 does more power @ 2 ohm so should I recalculate using 2 ohm? Does this make sense

800 watts is a good guesstimate if your amp didn't come with the second birthsheet. Since Xe.load balances power output between 1-4 ohms, you want to set gains assuming 4 ohms instead of your actual subwoofer impedance (2 ohms).

Is this 800 watt rating at 4 ohms or 2 ohms? I know that the amp uses the Triple Darlington and it's supposed to carry the same wattage with various loads, but bench testing has shown an increase when going to 2 and 1 ohms. Is it that much of an increase I should worry about it?

I ask because I'm using 2 dual 2 ohm voice coil subs. Each sub is wired in series to create to 4 ohm loads and then the subs are connected in parallel for a 2 ohm load at the amp.

KHPower wrote:Once you do what Stipud says you will never go back! Its very easy and very reliable and yiou can set up amp systems in no time really if you have a plan on what your going to do.

I have a question regarding this Stipud. You say to adjust his setup on the best load of the amp which would be 4 ohms. My rsd1200.1 I set using the impendence of the 4 ohm load I would be using on each amp and adjusted using the calculations for 4 ohm.

The 1200.1 does more power @ 2 ohm so should I recalculate using 2 ohm? Does this make sense

You calculate using the impedance the amp sees, so if your speakers are 4 ohms, then you have to do the 4 ohm calculation.

maka78 wrote:

KHPower wrote:Once you do what Stipud says you will never go back! Its very easy and very reliable and yiou can set up amp systems in no time really if you have a plan on what your going to do.

I have a question regarding this Stipud. You say to adjust his setup on the best load of the amp which would be 4 ohms. My rsd1200.1 I set using the impendence of the 4 ohm load I would be using on each amp and adjusted using the calculations for 4 ohm.

The 1200.1 does more power @ 2 ohm so should I recalculate using 2 ohm? Does this make sense

You calculate using the impedance the amp sees, so if your speakers are 4 ohms, then you have to do the 4 ohm calculation.

Thats what I did

allmet33 wrote:

800 watts is a good guesstimate if your amp didn't come with the second birthsheet. Since Xe.load balances power output between 1-4 ohms, you want to set gains assuming 4 ohms instead of your actual subwoofer impedance (2 ohms).

Is this 800 watt rating at 4 ohms or 2 ohms? I know that the amp uses the Triple Darlington and it's supposed to carry the same wattage with various loads, but bench testing has shown an increase when going to 2 and 1 ohms. Is it that much of an increase I should worry about it?

Actually, with XeLoad amps are optimized to output highest power at 4 ohms, and have slightly less power at lower ohms.

If you're talking about the Xenon series, you do your calculation @ 4 ohms, regardless if your speakers are 1-4 ohms.