Phoenix Gold Phorum

Which are better sounding subs? I'm currently running a pair of 10" Xenon subs off of a Xenon 600.1 amp. Would it be worth getting the RSdC subs??? Would I be gaining anything in sound quality or performance?

The Xenons are a great SQ sub for installs with lots of up-front midbass. They are pretty much unbeatable in terms of low frequency output, however, they have next to no upper bass output (above 60Hz). This makes them difficult to integrate into a stereo, unless you have some dedicated midbass drivers up front that can handle playing down low.

The RSD comp woofers are simply amazing. They play both high and low bass with forte, speed and surprising tonal accuracy. I have never heard another subwoofer that blended so well. Musical instruments actually sound like the instrument, rather than a subwoofer.

stipud wrote:The Xenons are a great SQ sub for installs with lots of up-front midbass. They are pretty much unbeatable in terms of low frequency output, however, they have next to no upper bass output (above 60Hz). This makes them difficult to integrate into a stereo, unless you have some dedicated midbass drivers up front that can handle playing down low.

The RSD comp woofers are simply amazing. They play both high and low bass with forte, speed and surprising tonal accuracy. I have never heard another subwoofer that blended so well. Musical instruments actually sound like the instrument, rather than a subwoofer.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm....

Well...I've got my fronts crossed at 80 Hz (hpf) and the rears are crossed at 100 Hz (hpf), the subs are crossed at 80 Hz (lpf). I definitely need to add some damping material in the doors and in my trunk.

With this info...you've got me pondering a switch to the RSdC's for my car and using the Xenons in my other vehicle.

i've written long tirades on it before... (do a search on "x10d2" and see if you can find the rsdc vs xenon posts)

basically...i loved the x10d2....but the RSDc crush it in ever way

Bfowler wrote:i've written long tirades on it before... (do a search on "x10d2" and see if you can find the rsdc vs xenon posts)

basically...i loved the x10d2....but the RSDc crush it in ever way

Cool...I'll look it up, thanks!!!

Bfowler wrote:i've written long tirades on it before... (do a search on "x10d2" and see if you can find the rsdc vs xenon posts)

basically...i loved the x10d2....but the RSDc crush it in ever way

Bfowler...I notice the first thing you said was after the break in period the bass became sloppy with the X10D2. Did you have it in a sealed or ported enclosure?

I've got mine in sealed enclosures with .75 cu. ft. for each sub and the bass is still tight. Which...based on what you're saying...I should not go with the advice I've received from others about putting them in a larger enclosure. Then again...maybe 1 cu. ft. is the magic number for them.

that was probably from when i was trying to run it sealed into my cabin firing forward. it DID sound sloppy in that set up

i have tried ever conceivable way to keep that poor sub.

i have gone with .75, 1, and 1.4 sealed boxes firing backwards, and firing forward sealed in with expanding foam behind my fold down seats.


1.4 firing back was the best of the bunch for me. i sounded very nice on almost everything but still missed many beats (i would find out later)

example:



the beat that hits right at 20, 24 seconds (etc) hits as 1 deep note, but on rsd 10's and RSDc subs you can identify it as 3 rapid succession notes.

it doesn't sound BAD by any means (still hits clean, loud and low), but you would never know it was 3 notes without trying other subs

i am absolutely in love with the low end of the xenon and tried MANY ways to make up for the lack of high end without compromising the awesome lows...but after the RSDc 12 in my car...the xenon is obsolete.

it plays just as low with as good, possibly better extension on long notes. plays louder overall, and is QUICK. i don't really know how to convay that in words. but if you have a chance...take a listen at a dealer.

Bfowler wrote:that was probably from when i was trying to run it sealed into my cabin firing forward. it DID sound sloppy in that set up

i have tried ever conceivable way to keep that poor sub.

i have gone with .75, 1, and 1.4 sealed boxes firing backwards, and firing forward sealed in with expanding foam behind my fold down seats.


1.4 firing back was the best of the bunch for me. i sounded very nice on almost everything but still missed many beats (i would find out later)

example:



the beat that hits right at 20, 24 seconds (etc) hits as 1 deep note, but on rsd 10's and RSDc subs you can identify it as 3 rapid succession notes.

it doesn't sound BAD by any means (still hits clean, loud and low), but you would never know it was 3 notes without trying other subs

i am absolutely in love with the low end of the xenon and tried MANY ways to make up for the lack of high end without compromising the awesome lows...but after the RSDc 12 in my car...the xenon is obsolete.

it plays just as low with as good, possibly better extension on long notes. plays louder overall, and is QUICK. i don't really know how to convay that in words. but if you have a chance...take a listen at a dealer.

I had heard many a good thing about the Xenon line back when I first got it. I wasn't aware at the time that it had a problem with playing the upper bass frequencies, but like you said...you can hear one song that sounds amazing and then another that seems to lack punch.

Right now, I've got the subs in .75 cu. ft. facing backwards. What if I reinforce my rear deck and drop an 8" mid-driver in there for punch? The question would then be...do I cross it with a lpf or a hpf???

if you are happy with the way they sound, don't change ANYTHING!

play something with a heavy 60-80 hz bassline. if it sounds great, i would say don't mess with anything.

if it is underwhelming, i would try and add dedicated midbass' in the front.
or go with RSDc's


modifying your deck and adding 8;s wouldn't do anything but mess up the xenons sound IMO. you want to try and keep notes higher then ~65 in the front of your car (65 is about where notes start becoming non directional which is why you FEEL the bass from the xenon's but it doesn't all sound like it in your trunk)



if you are in Portland i would let you throw in a pair of RSDc 10's just to test.

Bfowler wrote:if you are happy with the way they sound, don't change ANYTHING!

play something with a heavy 60-80 hz bassline. if it sounds great, i would say don't mess with anything.

if it is underwhelming, i would try and add dedicated midbass' in the front.
or go with RSDc's


modifying your deck and adding 8;s wouldn't do anything but mess up the xenons sound IMO. you want to try and keep notes higher then ~65 in the front of your car (65 is about where notes start becoming non directional which is why you FEEL the bass from the xenon's but it doesn't all sound like it in your trunk)



if you are in Portland i would let you throw in a pair of RSDc 10's just to test.

I see, I see. I'm going to play with the sound a bit more this evening and see what I come up with. I downloaded those test tones and burned a CD with them, so I'll see what I come up with on that.

Currently...with the front stage crossed of at 80 hi and the subs crossed at 80 low...it seems to be a really good blend. There are times that I can't even locate the subs sonically, it just feels like the bass is all around me.

I do think I'm going to build a slightly bigger box and maybe go with 1 cu. ft. and see what that does.

oh and to answer your question about the 8's:


you would need to do BOTH. you would use a HP (or subsonic filter on some sub amps and thebasscube) to cut off the VERY low notes (where you want the xenon's to start in at) and then set the LP filter where you want the front speakers to start in at

stipud wrote:They play both high and low bass with forte, speed and surprising tonal accuracy.

Forte, eh? Wurd uday colunder reeding agin?

I've two Rsd124C BNIB on the shop floor.
Now that the Boston experiment is showing success, it's onto building a house for these puppies. Does the RsdC line need rated horsepower to achieve these accolades?

HH

The first thing I would do in your shoes is replace your front door speakers with RSD 6.5" components, then deaden the crap out of the front doors. The RSDs play gobs of midbass, and when properly deadened should have no trouble keeping up to the Xenons. They have a nice silk domed tweeter as well, which will give you much sweeter treble than shrill Infinity coaxials.

HoseHead wrote:Forte, eh? Wurd uday colunder reeding agin?

I've two Rsd124C BNIB on the shop floor.
Now that the Boston experiment is showing success, it's onto building a house for these puppies. Does the RsdC line need rated horsepower to achieve these accolades?

HH

I have only 250w on mine, and it's more than I need.

HoseHead wrote:

stipud wrote:They play both high and low bass with forte, speed and surprising tonal accuracy.

I've two Rsd124C BNIB on the shop floor.
Now that the Boston experiment is showing success, it's onto building a house for these puppies. Does the RsdC line need rated horsepower to achieve these accolades?

HH

i would say sell them
if you build a box for them, you might be too tempted to get rid of your xmax's or bostons

no, they do pretty well on low power....but you will NOT regrett it if you give them extra power.

a t500.2 per 12 would be perfect IMO

edit: just saw they were the d4's...never mind on the tantrum @ 2ohms
but irredissregardless, around 500 watts each is my recommendation for full potential

stipud wrote:The first thing I would do in your shoes is replace your front door speakers with RSD 6.5" components, then deaden the crap out of the front doors. The RSDs play gobs of midbass, and when properly deadened should have no trouble keeping up to the Xenons. They have a nice silk domed tweeter as well, which will give you much sweeter treble than shrill Infinity coaxials.

Well...the only problem with all that is that my speakers are currently running off the OEM 7-channel amp and all the speakers are 2 ohm speakers. The RSD's are 4 ohm, right?

btw allmet, here is the thread i was talking about where i compare the xenon and rsdc more in depth that "sloppy seconds" thread is from LONG ago (in terms of changes to my system)

http://phoenixphorum.com/how-is-the-xen ... ight=x10d2

Bfowler wrote:btw allmet, here is the thread i was talking about where i compare the xenon and rsdc more in depth that "sloppy seconds" thread is from LONG ago (in terms of changes to my system)

http://phoenixphorum.com/how-is-the-xen ... ight=x10d2

Cool...I'll check it out now.

Yeah...I read thru that one too. Very good info...now my challenge is to either make the system sound better than it already does or swap to the RSdC's and definitely make it better.

allmet33 wrote:Well...the only problem with all that is that my speakers are currently running off the OEM 7-channel amp and all the speakers are 2 ohm speakers. The RSD's are 4 ohm, right?

So get yourself another amp to power them properly!! It's amazing what a difference a good front channel amp will make.

Bdubs is selling a Xenon 100.2 that would work... or even better, an X200.4. Send him a PM and see if he'll separate them:
http://phoenixphorum.com/super-for-sale-lol-vt7856.html

And you can get the RSD components here for cheap:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fus ... ct_ID=6952

That should all cost less, and make a more noticable difference than switching to RSD comp subwoofers.

Can you guys give me a good song (or songs) to listen to that would really show where the Xenon subs are lacking??? Maybe if I hear what you've heard...I can understand it even more.

I'm going to play this test CD I burned, but what exactly do I listen for?

stipud wrote:

allmet33 wrote:Well...the only problem with all that is that my speakers are currently running off the OEM 7-channel amp and all the speakers are 2 ohm speakers. The RSD's are 4 ohm, right?

So get yourself another amp to power them properly!! It's amazing what a difference a good front channel amp will make.

Bdubs is selling a Xenon 100.2 that would work... or even better, an X200.4. Send him a PM and see if he'll separate them:
http://phoenixphorum.com/super-for-sale-lol-vt7856.html

Only problem with that is I'm working with coaxials in the lower front doors, tweeters in the upper fronts and a center channel speaker to. I don't think the 100.2 would run that set up the right way. Then, what about my rear speakers???

allmet33 wrote:Only problem with that is I'm working with coaxials in the lower front doors, tweeters in the upper fronts and a center channel speaker to. I don't think the 100.2 would run that set up the right way. Then, what about my rear speakers???

Remove the front door coaxials and upper front tweeters. Put the RSD component mid and tweeter in their place. They come with a crossover, so that it splits the midrange and treble to the individual speakers, so that you only need two channels to power them.

You can leave your center channel and rear fill powered off the stock amp.

What kind of car do you drive anyways?

stipud wrote:The Xenons are a great SQ sub for installs with lots of up-front midbass. They are pretty much unbeatable in terms of low frequency output, however, they have next to no upper bass output (above 60Hz). This makes them difficult to integrate into a stereo, unless you have some dedicated midbass drivers up front that can handle playing down low.

The RSD comp woofers are simply amazing. They play both high and low bass with forte, speed and surprising tonal accuracy. I have never heard another subwoofer that blended so well. Musical instruments actually sound like the instrument, rather than a subwoofer.

With a solid front stage, anything over 60hz should be their territory anyway. Heck my crossover is at 40-50 most of the time.

^thats the goal...doesn't always work out like that.

i dont have room for fatty midbasses up front

stipud wrote:

allmet33 wrote:Only problem with that is I'm working with coaxials in the lower front doors, tweeters in the upper fronts and a center channel speaker to. I don't think the 100.2 would run that set up the right way. Then, what about my rear speakers???

Remove the front door coaxials and upper front tweeters. Put the RSD component mid and tweeter in their place. They come with a crossover, so that it splits the midrange and treble to the individual speakers, so that you only need two channels to power them.

You can leave your center channel and rear fill powered off the stock amp.

What kind of car do you drive anyways?

I'm driving an '06 Hyundai Azera.

Afterwork Monday, I took that CD with the test tones on it and played it in my system and I think I heard what you were talking about with the tones above 60 Hz. I got down to about 28 Hz before the subs had any qualms with producing the signal.

Anyway, I also re-tweaked my cross points. My head unit allows for me to set my front stage down to 63 Hz (hpf), the rears I set at 80 Hz (hpf) and the subs are now set at 63 Hz (lpf). The difference is truly significant. I can also tell how the front speakers will benefit from damping and provide me a bit more punch than they have now, but they still sound great. I was worried that they wouldn't perform well at that setting and they have proved me wrong.

The reason I went with the coaxial up front is to add a 2nd set of tweets to open the sound stage. The Azera's factory amp makes the center channel speaker too dominant in the sound stage. When I replaced the door speakers with the Kappa coaxials, I set the tweeter for +3 dB increase and WOW!!! Vocals still centralize in the soundstage, but musically...it's spread out more and sounds so much better.

The Xenon subs will stay in for now, but I talked the wifey into letting me upgrade to the RSdC's (when I'm ready) and then using the Xenon subs in our truck. I won't be doing a full on system in the truck...replacing the door speakers and adding the Xenon subs to reach down where the factory sub can't. I'll use my PG SLD44 signal processor to add the sub/amp set up to the factory system in the truck.