M44 or a 500.4 Ti to run my system? Your Take?

5.9Limited · Post by **5.9Limited** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:36 pm

Im putting together a system and I havea good friend who's hard set on M44's to run a system. Curious as to how a 500.4 Ti would compare? I like the look of either so that doesn't matter...I want to know which has better SQ and power...but mainly what you all think...Im not running a huge system..

Eclipse 7200mkII headunit (no onboard power)
1 JL W6.v2 10" subwoofer
Mb Quart Reference Components (Front Doors)
Coax's in rear doors.
I drive a '98 grand cherokee 5.9 limited and one of the features of this jeep is a rear sound bar located in the upper rear of the vehicle. Im running a second set of components up there, so i want to be sure the amp I get as enough to push these with quality as well as all my doors... any input is appreciated.

Post by **stipud** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:45 pm

Either way you will be happy. The M44 is getting long in the tooth, so it will need its capacitors replaced if it hasn't already... otherwise it could lose its magic smoke pretty quick. The Ti's on the other hand are new enough that they won't need that maintenance for up to 10 years.

Some people have compared the amps and thought the M sounded better... others couldn't tell the difference. I am one of the latter. I think all of PG's high end amps sound exactly alike, as long as they are gain matched.

The Ti500.4/ZX450 is my personal favorite amp. Small package, very underrated, and the most robust crossover of any PG amps.

dwnrodeo · Post by **dwnrodeo** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:05 am

I have used both and SQ wise couldn't tell an audible difference between the two. I did like the Ti500.4 for the awesome crossovers over the M44, as well as the asthetics, but other than that they both rank high up on my scale. In fact (insert shameless plug here) I have an M44 for sale.
http://phoenixphorum.com/fs-m44-vt5353.html
She's not in the best cosmetic condition, but it is fully functional and I have replaced the caps so it's good to go for another 15 years.

Post by **Rold Gold** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:23 am

I likes the M44.

That said, the Ti might be the better way to go for the xovers. What amp is the sub running off of? I take it yer running the coax on deck power and both sets of components off the 500.4/M44 I'm also kinda partial to matching amps but thats just me.

5.9Limited · Post by **5.9Limited** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:29 am

Im Running a JL 10 W6.v2 subwoofer, and want to run all my speakers off the amplifier...my deck has no power, its an Eclipse 7200 mkII...

dwnrodeo · Post by **dwnrodeo** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:00 am

Are you planning on running two sets of comps, a set of coax's and a subwoofer on one amp or several? The M44's crossovers are high pass only on the front and rear channels, but the sub-out section has low pass outputs, so if you want to run a subwoofer either use your headunits crossovers or run a seperate amp using the sub-out crossovers on the master amp. The Ti500.4 would be better in this case because A) it will give you more power i.e. 250 watts rather than 170ish and B) one Ti500.4 can run a set of comps and a subwoofer due to its versatile crossovers.

Post by **Rold Gold** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:14 am

Running 7 speakers off 1 amp is gonna be tricky. I've never done this for that reason. I know the MS/MPS amps can do it but I'm not sure about the M or Ti.......Yer gonna need an XVR.....

Post by **stipud** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:26 am

For the components on the sound bar, you could put a DPDT switch on the speaker cables, to switch between your front speakers or those ones. That will take care of the power issue.... since you probably won't need both at the same time.

Running front stage and rear stage at the same time with a sub will be tricky. The amp can do it, but you won't be able to fade F/R. Normally I run rear fill off of the headunit, but yours has no internal amplifier apparently.

So it sounds like you might need a second amp for the sub as well, unfortunately.

5.9Limited · Post by **5.9Limited** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:08 am

So I gues what Im hearing is tht the rear sound bar is an issue... can I run the system on one amp if I nix the rear soundbar for now? I'd be running , front components, rear coax, and the sub...I guess Im trying to aviod purchasing two amps at the moment but could add one later and switch up the set up to run the rear soundbar. I really hate to lose it for good.

Do i need to use the amps high pass crossover on the front if my components have a high quality crossover already??

dwnrodeo · Post by **dwnrodeo** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:15 am

You can go with a 5 channel amp and do it or (correct me if I'm wrong) you can wire both the front components and rear coax's to the front channels of a Ti500.4 giving you a 2 ohm final load per channel, and run the sub off of the rear channels giving you slightly more than 250 watts at 3 ohms. As for the crossover, you could either run the crossover exclusively through your deck, exclusively through the amp, or a mix of both (if you really wanted different crossover points and slopes), it's your choice.

5.9Limited · Post by **5.9Limited** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:05 am

dang. forgive me for sounding ignorant, but this is all getting a little out of my league. bottom line, can a Ti 500.4 run front components, one set of rear coax's and my 10 W6.v2? or do I really need two amps.

Post by **stipud** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:15 am

5.9Limited wrote:dang. forgive me for sounding ignorant, but this is all getting a little out of my league. bottom line, can a Ti 500.4 run front components, one set of rear coax's and my 10 W6.v2? or do I really need two amps.

The Ti500.4 has four channels, but you need to bridge the rear two to run your sub. So you have to wire your coaxials and components to the same channels. This means your coaxials would be louder than the components, and you won't be able to reduce their volume independently. It will sound like everything is coming from the back of the car. I believe you can use a big fat resistor to reduce their volume, but that is not ideal.

You can also wire a switch so that the amp powers your bar speakers OR the interior speakers, as I stated above.

5.9Limited · Post by **5.9Limited** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:48 pm

I must admit, this is all a little more complicated than I foresaw it being...but the end result will be worth it.

Im running an older alpine V12 2/3/4 unit right now thats powering all my speakers...it replaced the stock infinity rinki-dink amp that came stock with Infinity Gold sound system in my grand cherokee. It has a good sound and is fully functional...I was going to sell it to help finance some of the system going in...but it sounds like I should keep it. Even though its not the amp, or the look I want, and then replace it later...so i can make my whole system work.....

Post by **mhyde71** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:16 am

albeit I have a vested interest in getting you into the 500.4.. i truly believe it's a good start for you. i.e. do as tom (stipud) above indicated and then your next amp purchase would simply be an amp for your sub. One, 10", W6, wouldnt require a beast to get power to it. probably go with something like 400.2Ti just for the sub... (or something simliar like another 4-channel Ti, keeping the sound bar in mind), then they would be sister-brother amps, matching, and off to real good start in the rig. Just what I think/feel and way I might approach it, just my .02. -m