System Layout for my GN. Suggestions Appreciated!

Grim0013 · Post by **Grim0013** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:41 pm

Ok, I am trying to work out what I want to do in my Grand National, as far as the installation goes. So far I've come up with a basic layout. The trunk is two levels. The part right behind the seat is about 5.25 inches higher than the rest of the trunk. I was thinking of mounting the amps in the lower portion, then making a cover for the amp rack that brings the entire trunk to the same level. I would probably use something like 6 x 90mm fans, 3 pushing and 3 pulling, one pair per amp. The cover would also incorporate some sort of slotted rail or something to help hold my T-tops in place when they are in the trunk. In the middle of the cover, I was thinking about having Matt do up one of those PG swoosh logos to put in under the carpet, whatever that's called when you do that.

Here is a rough PowerPoint layout. Each little dot represents one inch. I tries to make everything to scale. I have included a pair of caps in this drawing, but I am not too sure about them. I wasn't planning on using caps initially, as I am going to put in a 250A alternator and run 1/0AWG power and ground. However, according to PG, a 2125 running 2 ohms bridged, which my sub amp will be doing, should have at least 1 farad of external cap, so I added them to the design.

Any input or idea anyone has will be greatly appreciated, as always.

Post by **stipud** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:59 pm

Looks good so far. Are you running just one MS275 now? If you got a second, you can take the endplates off and butt them up together, and it ends up being the same size as your 2125's. That would look pretty beastly!

Post by **Rold Gold** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:10 pm

My thoughts too Tom......
On another note, you might look into doing a second battery in the trunk with that HO alt. Do you plan to showcase the amps?

Grim0013 · Post by **Grim0013** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:43 pm

Yeah, I definitely want the amps to be showcased when the cover is removed. I am being very careful in buying amps that are very clean, no chips, etc. I have 3 2125s, one looks perfect, one has a ding that didn't penetrate the powder coat (you can't see it from more than about a foot away, and even then it is tough to see) and the 275 I am buying from Matt looks just about perfect in the pics he sent me.

I only plan on using a single 275, which is already overkill for the horns I am using. BTW, I just got hold of a set of NIB Image Dynamics CD1PRO full bodies. They are ID's mid-grade horns. Didn't want to go for the Ultras or CD2s just yet, since I've never used horns before. If I feel the need to upgrade later, it won't be a big deal, as I would only need to swap the drivers, not the horns. Then it's a 2125 on sub duty, and the other 2125 on mid-bass duty. It's a fairly straight forward 3-way setup.

One of the big things I am trying to work out at the moment is how I want to do the wiring. I am not sure if there is enough height available to do the usually run them under the rack thing. Figure to give the amps 3" of height, 1/2" for the cover, 1/2" for the bottom puts it at 4" which leaves a little over an inch to work with. I suppose that would be enough for the 1/0AWG that's going to the blocks, and all the other wiring is smaller than that. I'm just not sure if that's how I want to do it. The problem is though, any way I can think of to do the wiring exposed ends up needing some wires to cross, and then things get messy when that happens.

Post by **Rold Gold** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:59 pm

If it were my system, I'd run all 3 2125's and the 275 but inverted to show the guts. They really look good that way.
2125- Sub
2125- Sub
2125- 6.5's
275- Horns

That's got a big trunk on it so all the gear should fit nicely. Nobody with a system has a spare tire anyhow dood.........

Grim0013 · Post by **Grim0013** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:00 pm

FuzzyHoNutz wrote:My thoughts too Tom......
On another note, you might look into doing a second battery in the trunk with that HO alt. Do you plan to showcase the amps?

I have been thinking about either a second batt. and/or moving the primary to the trunk. The snag is the NHRA rules that say if the batt. is in the trunk, there must be a firewall present. I don't think a baffle board with a pair of IB15s in it counts. However, my buddy was telling me that they used to run their trunk batt. w/o a firewall, and it was legal due to the batt. being in a sealed metal enclosure. I may look in to that. I would kind of prefer to avoid a second batt. due to weight. I am trying to keep things as moderate as I can when it comes to weight.

Grim0013 · Post by **Grim0013** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:06 pm

FuzzyHoNutz wrote:If it were my system, I'd run all 3 2125's and the 275 but inverted to show the guts. They really look good that way.
2125- Sub
2125- Sub
2125- 6.5's
275- Horns

That's got a big trunk on it so all the gear should fit nicely. Nobody with a system has a spare tire anyhow dood.........

I have considered it, but a 2125 is wayyyy more power than those subs can use. They can handle it thermally, but they are designed to reach xmax with moderate power. I think the designer over at AE was saying something like 200W to hit xmax at 20Hz. They are fairly high sensitivity (91db 1w/1m) compared to most modern subs. (mid-80's 1w/1m) A 2125 bridged 4 ohm per sub is still very compelling, I'll admit.

I could always use different subs that can make use of all that power, but I am not sure I can convince myself of the need. From what people say, 2 of the Acoustic Elegance IB15s, which is what I have, with around 300W each is enough output to shake the teeth out of your skull.

*Edit*

Three 2125s across the bottom of the trunk would look absolutely sick though!

Post by **Rold Gold** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:16 pm

I always try to over power subs. It doesn't hurt 'em as long as ya don't run them to distortion. We can't even hear a 20hz note....... No need to go that low unless ya got a cyclone IMO. Plus, those amps are rated at 125w x 2.....so 250w-ish.

Ya know, yer adding a ton of weight to yer ride by adding a system like this. I'd be willing to be close to 150lbs or better all said-n-done...

Grim0013 · Post by **Grim0013** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:59 pm

FuzzyHoNutz wrote:I always try to over power subs. It doesn't hurt 'em as long as ya don't run them to distortion. We can't even hear a 20hz note....... No need to go that low unless ya got a cyclone IMO. Plus, those amps are rated at 125w x 2.....so 250w-ish.

Ya know, yer adding a ton of weight to yer ride by adding a system like this. I'd be willing to be close to 150lbs or better all said-n-done...

The 2125 is rated 160x2 @ 4 ohms, 255x2 @ 2 ohms, 510x1 @ 4 ohms bridged and though it is not rated at 2 ohms bridged, PG say approx. 720W @ 2 ohms bridged. My current plan is for the two subs to run off of a single 2125 @ 2 ohms bridged for about 360W per sub. If I use two 2125s for subs, that would be 4 ohms bridged, for about 510W per sub. At more practical frequencies, like 40-80Hz, I think it takes something like 300W to hit xmax on an IB15. I've gone over it with John (I think it was) over at Acoustic Elegance, and he's saying 200-300W is plenty for these things.

But, on the other hand, with each sub having it's own 2125 they will be much more dynamic, theoretically. It all comes down to how much power is needed to drive the things at listenable volumes. If they are only getting 200W when I crank it up, that means the single 2125 still has plenty of power for those dynamic peaks. On the other hand, if I am really stressing the hell out of those 2125s, feeding the full 360W per sub when I crank it, obviously there isn't a lot left for dynamic peaks. Tough choices, really.

Post by **joerg** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:53 pm

If u are going with those 3 amps i might have a pretty sweet idea for u! As i ran out of space during the install on my former car i decided to mount the Son of Frank where Nobody is going to expect an amp! under the roof! The 4 MS2125 were mounted at an angle where the backseats used to be!

Why not mount all your amps under the roof and for display u take a custom fit mirror with u and place it rigtht under them in the car?

Grim0013 · Post by **Grim0013** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:09 pm

Damn joerg! that's kinda crazy! But in a good way.

I don't think it would fit in with my OEM-ish interior theme though, hehe. Great idea for a ride that's set up more as a show car. I mean, I want my GN to be show caliber, but more understated. That's kind of the theme of the car itself, from the beginning back in the 80's.

Here's a quick and crappy pic of what I've got to work with in the trunk. The subs you see are a pair of RSd 12's, to give an idea of scale.

Grim0013 · Post by **Grim0013** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:37 pm

So, I just had a funky idea that is either pretty col, or pretty cheesy, and I'm not sure which. The idea is to use UV reactive paint in my install in some way. The first thing that came to mind along these lines was maybe putting a light coat of white UV reactive paint on my amps. In normal light, the UV paint is transparent, but under a UV light, I'm thinking a light coat would of UV white on my white MS amps would give them a cool glowing effect. I'm thinking just a light coat. I'm looking for more of a suble effect, not something that jumps out and grabs you. What do you guys think?

Post by **mhyde71** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:17 pm

I'm into it, but not sure what it is.. sounds neat/cool.. but will it be affecting the amp and making it not so OEM any more?? that I would be against to some extant.. just from a collectors standpoint... but then again.. who am I to say, when I put BB's in them.. so hey.. i dunno.. sounds neat!
anything that looks/feels/sounds good to you with your amps, their your amps... do it!! But I wanna see! I wanna see what you mean...

is it like ultraviolet sensative t-shirts where the sun hits'em and they change colors???

Grim0013 · Post by **Grim0013** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:28 pm

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/6072/ ... 44c257s654

Down a little you'll see a painting of a tropical scene someone did, showing the effect. If you mouse over it, it shows what the room looks like in normal light. Oh, and the stuff is removable from most surfaces with mild cleaning agents (soap and water or window cleaner in most cases) so it isn't permanently altering the amp. I think I'll order some up and give it a look-see.

This stuff gets used in computer case modding with some frequency, which is where I got the idea. I was shopping around for 12V fans at one of the vendors I used for that kind of stuff and the idea kinda popped into my head. Hrmmm.....now I thinking about a PG logo spayed blue UV too, hehe. I'm sure someone has done the UV thing in an install at some point, though I've not seen it, so I'm gonna claim a small bit of creativity for the idea.

At any rate, since the stuff is removable I think I'll just give it a shot and see how it comes out.

Post by **mhyde71** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:40 pm

NO WAY!! THAT SHIT IS F*&^%$#G BAD ASS!

Never Seen before in anything .. I dont think so anyways...
I Think it looks fricken pretty damn cool... LIKE MAYBE a PG swoosh Like you said or with right template maybe it could be sprayed on the back/side window or something - geese the sky's the limit with that stuff, eh? What type of surfaces does it take to, I only saw about syrfaces that it may be hard to get off of, but nothing like ideal for use with metal, porcelain, acrylics, dry wall, etc... or anything.. so maybe just about anything

Grim0013 · Post by **Grim0013** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:56 pm

Well, people use it on PC components with success. Lots of metal, plastic and plexi, and seems to work out for them. I got a few more pics of it being used in PCs linked too. Looks like one dude did his video card, PCB and all, in red. Looks kinda cool.

Man, I'm thinking up all kinds of silly crap with this stuff, like doing it color coded on some wiring, or the basket on subs. Not sure if white or blue would look better on an MS....everyone seems to be out of white though, so I may not have a choice. Shit ain't exactly cheap, at $20 a can. But I guess that's the price of being a trend setter, hehe. Maybe I should be keeping this on the down-low until my install is done, hehe.

http://customerpics.xoxide.com/viewimag ... 59&id=3130

http://customerpics.xoxide.com/viewimag ... 51&id=3134

Post by **mhyde71** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:01 pm

if it's really like all that and a bag of chips...

maybe spray it all over the guts/componants of the amps and see what kinda look that brings! (like the other guys do in their computers)

Post by **mhyde71** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:04 pm

only prob w/ that though ^^^
1) the gutz look bad ass enuff, maybe with the add on UV paint would take away from that...
2) hate to have to run soap and water over the board to get it off later on...

Grim0013 · Post by **Grim0013** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:07 pm

Yeah, that would kinda suck. Really, I don't think I'm gonna go over the top with it. It's really easy to go overboard with that kinda stuff. Main thing that got me thinking about it was just using it to add a subtle glow effect to the amps, and then that logo idea I think would be kinda cool too.

Post by **mhyde71** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:10 pm

yeah I hear ya.. best to keep it conservative, as like you said you could go nutz with that stuff... - ahh this will look cool, and this will look cool, and that over there will look cool.. before you know it, you've gone through three cans and done ruined everything, or just done overkill... a little sounds like the pli-zan...

Post by **stipud** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:26 am

My main concern would be getting a good even coat, instead of a splotchy appearance, or dripping. Not sure how that stuff would adhere to powder coat as well. And I assume it's not reversible either?

Maybe you can try something simple first like blowing PG logos or some decoration around your subs, instead of going straight to your prized amps.

Post by **Rold Gold** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:06 am

I know yer kinda on a budget and already have those woofers but..........
If ya switched to a pair of RSdC122's you'd save some air space and be able to run a 2125 to each of them and thus use all 4 amps.

Another thought................ If you put the t-tops in the trunk over the woofers, you kill the sound.....

Grim0013 · Post by **Grim0013** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:55 am

FuzzyHoNutz wrote:I know yer kinda on a budget and already have those woofers but..........
If ya switched to a pair of RSdC122's you'd save some air space and be able to run a 2125 to each of them and thus use all 4 amps.

Another thought................ If you put the t-tops in the trunk over the woofers, you kill the sound.....

A few issues with that. Another amp means more weight, and how much do those RSdc's weigh? The IB15s are about 17 lbs each. Also, being IB, the baffle should save some weight vs. a box. Also, since they are IB, there is more than enough room for the t-tops to lie flat on the floor behind them, minimizing any impact they might have. Also, the third 2125 is kinda roughed up, and needs a lot of work. It's kinda nice knowing I have a spare 2125 handy too.

I am really looking forward to trying out the IB15s. The few people who've used them that I have talked to claims they are the best subwoofer they have ever used. One guy reports his chassis shaking @ 300Wx2 and being at the limit of how much output his ears could tolerate. In the end, what I think I'll end up doing is hooking them up both ways when I am installing, and seeing if the extra amp is needed or not.

@Stipud
Of course I intend to test the stuff out before using it on my amps. The nice thing is though, it is removable with mild cleaning solutions, ie: soapy water or windex.

Post by **kg1961** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:10 pm

minus one amp and th Ib you will save allot of space and weight... just my 2cents
and you will have one amp for back up or to sell ... help pay for the project

Post by **Rold Gold** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:12 pm

The RSdC's weigh 20 pounds each.........

Just tossing some ideas out there.......Ya never know what might stick.

System Layout for my GN. Suggestions Appreciated!

System Layout for my GN. Suggestions Appreciated!

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