Subs sounding strained?

neverman · Post by **neverman** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:54 am

Every once in awhile my subs sound great but more often than not they leave me yearning for more. More ooomph, more impact I suppose. I wanted an SQ setup and I pretty much have it when it's tuned just right. But that spots damn hard to nail down with my equipment changes.

Should I consider switching to a single 12" sub in a sealed enclosure? I'd like to not need to switch amps. I have a ZPA0.5 for sub duty, that is hopefully enough? Should I consider going BIG watts to properly push a non-efficient sub (like an elite) or just get a more efficient sub (like an rsd)? Or should I jump ship and get any number of quality subs available today? Mine are really old and I think sub design has improved through the years where amps seem to have gone downhill in general.

I listen to all sorts of music, cept country really and don't need a perfectly flat response. I'm probably pretty close to flat now minus some cabin gain. I'd like some punch...

Maybe just play with my present boxes volumn? Add foam or something?

How different are the elites from the rsd comps?

dBincognito · Post by **dBincognito** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:59 am

The Elite's are very power hungry.....to get a good sound you would need more power.....if you are looking for more punch, but want to stay with SQ, I would check out some Focal subs, or Rainbow....Morel....HiVi....Dayton....SEAS....there are a number of choices that would better fit what you are looking for

Post by **stipud** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:10 am

A pair of RSD competition 12's would be sweet on that power. Hell, even the 10's would do great.

How big is your current box?

By the way, you've got a PM.

Post by **Bfowler** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:26 am

dude....even 1 rsdc 12 is pretty damn substantial...especially on a zpa.6

neverman · Post by **neverman** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:00 pm

Shouldn't my ss-10's be ok though? My system has me worried more and more every damn day. Something is amiss.

Off topic... it was my thread so I can do that right?

Who makes the tweeter for the PG elites? I just nabbed some on ebay yesterday. I know the mids are morel. The x-overs were hand made in house at PG? I know nothing about the tweeter I just bought. Not a big deal I was after the mids more than anything.

Speaking of the mids. I notice the cone material isn't the same as the elates. Did they used to be and Morel has updated or have they always been their own little offshoot of an elate?

Oh... I forgot, I don't know the volume of the box. It's pretty big. I believe it was built to spec for the exacts.

Post by **ttocs** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:29 am

I don't think you will gain much going to a single 12 from a pair of 10s. A pair of 10s should be able to fill your low end. Have you considered a bass cube? It could help you to fill in the parts that you are lacking in the sub signal.

dBincognito · Post by **dBincognito** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:33 am

Morel Elate's are completely different speakers....these are what most closely resembles the Elite's

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Morel-CAW638-6-5- ... dZViewItem

Post by **stipud** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:13 am

neverman wrote:Shouldn't my ss-10's be ok though? My system has me worried more and more every damn day. Something is amiss.

Well, it's an oldschool 10" woofer. They were never kings of low end bass, so they usually got boomier or more strained sounding the deeper you went.

Modern subs like the PG RSD/RSD Competition/Xenon can play deep bass very clean by comparison. With the Xenon you lose out on high end bass, with the RSD less so, and with the RSD competition the high stuff sounds as good as the low stuff. That's why we always recommend them... they are excellent subs.

The tweeter I believe is a derivative of the MT22 or 23.

Post by **Bfowler** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:45 am

did you nab the set with the rsd tweets?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RARE-Phoenix-Gold ... 240%3A1318

if so, those are the made by a build house in china. they do have A LOT in common with ti tweets, but as usual JOMA misrepresented his product.

Post by **stipud** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:44 am

Uh-oh. I hope to hell you didn't buy that set. The crossover is painted, and the tweeters are not Elite tweeters at all, and probably wouldn't work properly with the crossover.

http://phoenixphorum.com/elite-conponen ... t9701.html

This is why we hate JOMA.

neverman · Post by **neverman** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:33 am

Bfowler wrote:did you nab the set with the rsd tweets?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RARE-Phoenix-Gold ... 240%3A1318

if so, those are the made by a build house in china. they do have A LOT in common with ti tweets, but as usual JOMA misrepresented his product.

Where are the Ti tweets made?

Post by **stipud** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:26 am

neverman wrote:Where are the Ti tweets made?

The Ti Elite tweeters and mids were built by Morel in Israel. IIRC the crossover was built by PG in Portland.

Post by **Bfowler** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:20 am

neverman · Post by **neverman** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:08 pm

Thanks!

So I've heard good things about the mid (though lacking in punch to some extent). I haven't heard squat about the tweeters, how do they compare to tweeters you've loved and or hated? How low will they go etc?

Post by **smgreen20** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:36 pm

Bfowler wrote:especially on a zpa.6

When did those come out????

I want one.

ZPA0.6

Post by **Wakeup** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:22 pm

smgreen20 wrote:
Bfowler wrote:especially on a zpa.6
When did those come out???? I want one. ZPA0.6

Heheh....(to continue on with the joke....) I bet Tristan has a dozen somewhere.

neverman · Post by **neverman** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:27 am

stipud wrote:Uh-oh. I hope to hell you didn't buy that set. The crossover is painted, and the tweeters are not Elite tweeters at all, and probably wouldn't work properly with the crossover.

http://phoenixphorum.com/elite-conponen ... t9701.html

This is why we hate JOMA.

I did actually win those with a best offer kind of deal. I looked at his feedback scores and it was almost all favorable. I came here again and paniced a little. I had sent him a question regarding the item as it was obvious to me it wasn't NEW as he advertised it. I asked what does "new" mean to you. Like kinda new, installed but never run? Installed ran for a year and didn't like... etc. I got the answer back that they were "new". I figured, ok he must have another set lieing around that he's selling me.

I won on my offer then came here to research them a bit more. I then saw them in the auctions of interest thread. UH-OH.... I quickly fired off an email asking about the mismatched tweets (which I wouldn't have noticed without your guys help) and the used appearance. I told him I would refuse shipment if they were indeed the used set pictured with the rsd tweets. He told me eventually "fine" "but don't bid on any more of my auctions" making me sound like an ass. Oh well. money is now refunded and all is well. Luckily I convinced him before he shipped em. I never did get an answer about the mismatched set from him, oh well.

I didn't want to say anything negative regarding the transaction until I had got my money back... sorry for keeping you guys in the dark but THANKS AGAIN!

Post by **stipud** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:57 am

Wow... what a fucking dick. Not only are those the wrong tweets, but the crossover was painted. New? My ass. That is the most ghetto rigged setup I've seen him try to pull as new.

At least you got your money back.

Post by **Bfowler** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:56 am

whew...that could have ended MUCH worse.

dBincognito · Post by **dBincognito** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:58 am

ALRIGHT!!!!!!!!!

thedeal7235 · Post by **thedeal7235** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:05 am

i have used both the elites and the rsd's, currently i use the rsd 6.5& tweet, and i use the rsdc 10, i run 75by 2 to the tweets active, 150 by 2 active to the 6.5 rsd midbass, and i use the rsd 1200.1 for my 2 rsdc 10s-personally i luv the elite mids, however the rsd mids give me more of a mid bass response that i like to hear, ( ive used diamond audio subs, rockford subs, kicker subs, -HANDS DOWN i beleive the rsdc subs are the best ive ever heard on 10" subs w/a good amount of power going to them-good luck, you can also ask dbincognito, hes heard my 2 rsdc 10s off the rsd 1200.1 amp, and i also use the lpl-44, sometimes its too much/and i can adjust /blend the subs better that way w/mids-good luck

Post by **Wakeup** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:20 am

wow..crazy...glad you got yer money back.

neverman · Post by **neverman** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:37 pm

Even after getting the response that they were "new", which I could obviously see they were not. I would've been happy with the price I paid for the set used. That's why I did offer the money. I was NOT cool with the tweeters being switched to a different make.

I was really looking forward to comparing the elite mid to my diamonds... Oh well, maybe someday.

How does he maintain such a squeeky clean feedback?

I'm glad I convinced him I'd be a total dick to deal with if he shipped them to me. He blew off my first warning of "don't send that crap if it's what you have in the photo." He only responded when I said I'd refuse shipment and contest the sale until I died basically. I have lots of spare time.

Funny, he said I had enough experience on ebay to know better than to bid on something I didn't want. Forget the fact that he misrepresented on several fronts what he was actually selling? Some peoples children.

neverman · Post by **neverman** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:43 pm

Back on topic...

So If I'm going to try rsdc's what voice coils do I want in an ideal 1 or 2 sub setup?

If I get a single 12"? Will a single 12" beat out a pair of 10"s? Assuming I build a proper box. Also assume I'll keep everything sealed until someone convinces me I need a ported box.

How different would 2 12's be compared to a 2 10's?

I'd still like to power my subs without changing power. That means a single ZPA.5, it can handle it right?

Post by **stipud** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:27 am

Well, since you'd be running them off a ZPA, I would aim for 4 ohms bridged.

So a single sub you would want a D2 in series for 4 ohms, or for two subs you want D4's in series/parallel for 4 ohms.

The 10's are the more musical of the two, and have no troubles playing flat to 20Hz in my car. However, I found mine a little too transparent. With the 12, it sounds like it wants to tear the car apart. Then again, a pair of 10's would probably be equally violent. The 12 is my personal favorite between the two.

It's up to your personal taste I suppose. Can't really go wrong either way!