Phoenix Gold Phorum

The last two days have been beautiful here, and it got me out of the shop and working on my trucks system. I pulled the Tantrum 1200.1 in favor of one of my 800.1's, to see how it would do at 1 ohm for the future Bronco install. I threw in my Ti 15F powercore, and installed a new to me and recently repaired ZX475Ti for my mids and highs. Pulled more RCA cable for the amp, and speaker wire and gave the truck a much needed spring cleaning.

I then got a bug in my ass about trying to squeeze a second one of my old school stroker 12d2's in the truck. I stumbled on smgreen20's cardomain page a while back, and we share pretty much the same pick up cab design. I "borrowed" his idea and raised my rear seat 4 inches to buy me some more room. No one but my dog rides back there anyhow...

I was going to spend the day yesterday building a new box, but I got tied up installing the 4 channel and a new HU, so I figured I was better off modeling a box and nailing down some plans before I started cutting up lumber. So, on my next days off (Tuesday-Thursday this coming week) I am going to install another stroker and another 800.1.

I modeled a box in google sketchup tonight, and this is what I have come up with so far. It looks like I can net about 6.5 ft^3 in the space I have available now. Gross box volume is around 7ft^3 before the port volume and driver volume is accounted for. This is more than enough room for 2 12's. Recommended net box size is 2.15ft^3. So I am probably going to cut down on the height a bit to better match the recommended dimensions. The box is tuned for 45Hz with a port area of 134in^2. The transparent window in the lower front of the box is going to be for a engraved 3/4" lexan window I am going to do for this install.

I am looking for input on the box, currently the single stroker in the truck fires up into the rear seat, and this is the major reason I am remodeling things. The O/S strokers have no dust cap, and sand from the dog/driveway/truck is making its way down into the VC gab and starting to wreak havoc. I cleaned the sub out when I had it out the other day, but if this keeps up it is going to destroy the VC's. Anyhow, I did another design with the subs firing down into the rear floor, box ported up the rear cab wall w/ the port outside the box, but I liked this design the best, mainly because I won't have to pull the rear seat again to get it in, and the overall shape is going to be much less complicated to cut.

So, here is the picture, tell me what you think:



Thanks,
Jason

If you like listening to music, I recommend you tune another 10Hz-15Hz lower, even if it means shrinking your port a bit. This will sound less peaky and let you extend down to 25-20Hz, instead of confining you ~35Hz.

Do you have a subsonic filter in your setup like a basscube? Does the 800.1 have that feature? It's a good idea to set an SSF at ~10Hz below the port tuning frequency, in order to keep the port from unloading, and essentially making the sub run free air.

Also, I think you should run an 800.1 per coil

How's the Bronco doing anyways? Haven't updated your thread in awhile and I am damn curious.

I have modeled the enclosure at 35Hz, and initially that is what I was going to do. WinISD predicts that tuned at 35Hz I am down about 9dB from where I would be at 45Hz. From what I have modeled, it is almost impossible to get a flat response curve from these subs. They are after all a SPL machine. I would have to stuff them in a .8ft^3 box to get the curve anywhere near flat.

If I cut my port area roughly in half, and keep the same length that I have planned it will tune to about 35Hz. If I am not happy with it, I can always re-tune the port, with half the port area, I can get virtually anywhere from 35-45Hz by adjusting the length and still have reasonable port air speed, so it is an option. The single one is tuned for 38Hz or so right now, and I like the way it sounds, but I was thinking it would be a lot of fun to see what kind of SPL they can turn out...

As for subsonic filter, yes, I have a BC and I used the tracking sub sonic filter. I would love to put an 800.1 on each coil, but I don't have the room for the amps. It is going to be very tight squeezing in the second 800.1. The one that is in there doesn't even break a sweat at 1 ohm. My 800.1's measure close to +/-70Vdc on the rails. This is a shit ton of power at 1 ohm, as long as the outputs continue to take the abuse. In my defense though, I don't run it really hard for very long, and I can fix them if I blow them up

The Bronco is kind of stalled again, I have a ton of crap going on, and it has been tough to get motivated. Hopefully soon I will get off my dead ass again and get to it.

Later,
Jason

huh....software question....what is it and where did you get it. I've been doing this the tried and true old fashion way....sine wave generator and an rta....so maybe I ought to come out of the stone age for at least a few.

can't wait to see the install....my 15s are awaiting a delayed amp repair as I cant find anyone to do it!!! locally it was either I wouldn't leave the amp with em or they saw it and said nope. Not the repair....no one will look at it....carry it thru and say how much for repairs and they won't do it. blahhhh I've got one of the strokers on my test board in the shop and she sounds decent....I am breaking them in on a tube sine wave generator and playing with the port alittle just to see. I've strapped an mmats 700.1 pro to the generator and walla....drop it down to the resonent frequency and let her run for awhile....sounds like a semi is idleing thru my house.

YOu can find winisd here:
http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=winisdpro

Thank ya steve...ill check that out.

I highly recommend the the winisd "alpha" version, which I believe is the one Steve linked. I tried the non beta version ages ago, and it just was no where near as easy to work with.

Don't feel bad though, I still use my trusty HP 48Gx to do all of my calculations, including port tuning calcs. It is nice to run it through WinISD though to see what the frequency response should come out at.

Later,
Jason

thanks...I'm looking at it right now....pretty cool...may try and design the box for the strokers on it and i intend to use external tube ports through the deck lid so if it is off I can use the trusty generator/rta to tune the ports to run as they ought to....worse comes to worse I cut up 10 dollars worth of tubing...my power supply is solid but it is small so I can't really run subs in the shop for anything...working on rounding up a huge power supply. as is I've got to get it in the car to really see and that bites with big ass boxes.

Jacampb2 wrote:I have modeled the enclosure at 35Hz, and initially that is what I was going to do. WinISD predicts that tuned at 35Hz I am down about 9dB from where I would be at 45Hz. From what I have modeled, it is almost impossible to get a flat response curve from these subs. They are after all a SPL machine. I would have to stuff them in a .8ft^3 box to get the curve anywhere near flat.

If I cut my port area roughly in half, and keep the same length that I have planned it will tune to about 35Hz. If I am not happy with it, I can always re-tune the port, with half the port area, I can get virtually anywhere from 35-45Hz by adjusting the length and still have reasonable port air speed, so it is an option. The single one is tuned for 38Hz or so right now, and I like the way it sounds, but I was thinking it would be a lot of fun to see what kind of SPL they can turn out...

Hmm... Maybe you can put a dividing wall between your two ports, all the way down. When you want deep bass, put a big styrofoam block in one of them. When you want loud bass, pull it out. Not sure what that box design is called but I've heard several cars with it, and it seems to work pretty well in practice.

Jacampb2 wrote: I stumbled on smgreen20's cardomain page a while back, and we share pretty much the same pick up cab design. I "borrowed" his idea and raised my rear seat 4 inches to buy me some more room. No one but my dog rides back there anyhow...

4" !!!
Damn!

I'm glad it's only your dog back there. Glad something of mine could help someone else. A 2" lift was perfect for an adult in the back seat.

Yeah, well, in the 7 years I have had the truck, my brother in law has sat back there a handful of times, the oldest one in the car seat one time, and the 110Lb great dane nearly every day. Now that we have two kids, both car seats and the dog are not going to happen, so it is unlikely even they will sit back there any more. I tried the seat out, and I am about 5'10" and it is tight. I am not to worried about it though.

Anyhow, I worked on the box design some more. I cut down the height a bit and got it close to 2.15ft^3 net, per sub. I redesigned with two ports, total port area of 100in^2. With the lower height, the other port design would not fit. Anyhow, this port design will tune in at 45Hz with both ports open, and 32Hz with one blocked. I will probably machine some nice flared aluminum port openings, a set of T nuts in the MDF and I can pull one flare and bolt on a machined cover and effectively block the port, netting another .5ft^2 or so, and going down to 32Hz. It will allow me to play a bit anyhow.

Here is the new sketchup model:



Later,
Jason

I forgot to add, if you go over 2" of lift, you'll need to add some tab extensions to the back of the seat to hold it in the up position when you stop. Other wise it'll keep falling down.

Just look at the top corners of the rear back and you'll now what I'm talking about.

Cool, you figured out the port plug! Nicely done. I am excited to see how this looks when you're finished.

smgreen20 wrote:I forgot to add, if you go over 2" of lift, you'll need to add some tab extensions to the back of the seat to hold it in the up position when you stop. Other wise it'll keep falling down.

Just look at the top corners of the rear back and you'll now what I'm talking about.

Yeah, I already did that. It did surprise me when I found them though. I can't figure why they didn't just make the seat back rigid... I may end up using it to my advantage though and make some sliding bar latches that allow me to easily release the back of the seat and fold forward. After looking more at your cardomain page, I really like the amp rack behind the seat. I have really been struggling with amp location-- If I built a rack behind the rear seat I could probably squeeze 4 800.1's in there

Currently the 800.1 is mounted on the front of the box, and the ZX475, Ti powercore, and bass cube are on top of the box. I was thinking with the new box still mounting all of the amps on the box top, but behind the seat would keep more debris out of them. Do you have any trouble with your stuff running hot back there?

If I do an amp rack behind the seat, I am going to go back to the plan of firing the subs down toward the floor. This is the most protected way I can think of to install them, and if I do it right, it will probably gain some output by firing directly into a reflective surface... As long as there is enough angle to eliminate standing waves-- Hmmm... back to sketchup.

Later,
Jason

No problems running cool back there.

I built a box down firing and I hated it.....w/a passion!

I wish you luck on the build and it's outcome, both visually and acoustically. 4- 800.1's That WILL be a tight fit. I left a bit of room out that I could still use on the amp rack, but it would've served me no purpose. I can measure what I have and let you know what you can get.

LMK.

smgreen20 wrote:No problems running cool back there.

I built a box down firing and I hated it.....w/a passion!

Hmmm... Now you tell me. I just finished the sketchup model for downfiring. Did you fire straight down, or at an angle like my new design? I have built two huge boxes like this in the past, one for six RF punch 15's in my old olds calais, and one for 8 diamond audio 12s in old cavalier. Both were SPL rigs though, and I couldn't tell you how they might sound musically...

Here is the new model:





Later,
Jason

u got me jonesing for pics-cant wait to see!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Straight down. It shook the hell out of the truck. leaving the front open too (I didn't) might help as well.

I started the box yesterday. I layed out all the individual pieces on 4x8 sheets using sketchup, printed off the sheet layouts and cut all the pieces except the actual sub baffles inbetween rain squalls yesterday. I put the box together after cutting it all, and now I have to cut the baffles, cut the port, and cut the windows. I got my piece of 1" plexi yesterday

Here is a pic so far:



Later,
Jason

Man I really need a reason to learn sketchup. The stuff you've done with it is amazing!

I honestly don't like sketchup much, it is a bit to "freeform" for my tastes. It is the only 3d cad program I have acess to at work, so I use it.

Anyhow, I got the baffles made, it ended up being fairly difficult. Cut the countersink and sub hole, as well as the holes for the tee nuts on the mill. Subs are going in with allen head bolts

Here is the pic:



Later,
Jason

keep' em coming

Been working for the last few hours designing artwork for my plexiglass windows. I need some opinions.

Here is what I came up with:



I like the way it came out, but I wish I could put the Phoenix gold logo on there too. I tried the newer PG logo, like seen on the top of the forum, but I though it looked to busy. So, the question is, do I do it like the above, and keep it symetrical with the same thing on both windows, or do I center the Stroker logo on one window, and do something with the actual PG name in it in the other window. Or, I guess one window as planned, and another with the Team PG or RCA logo???

I hate making descisions for myself, and I only have 6x28 inches of the 1" plexi, so I have to nail it right the first time.

Later,
Jason

If that is the first box, I HAVE NO DOUBT FIRST SHOT AROUND will go PEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRFFFFFFFFEEEEEEEEEECCCCCCCCCTTTTTT!

In your last pic, it looks to me that the center of the box where the tranny hump will go, doesn't look tall enough. It's 4" in the front and 4 1/2" in the back.

Looks good. Wish I had some sort of program to use like that.

I've never been a big fan of CV, but for some reason I've always liked the Strokers. Looks I guess. If it were me, I'd only put a PG logo on the plexi. That ZERO point one looks good. I'd keep it, but I've always been a fan of the PG logo that says Phoenix Gold w/the RCA behind it. Also the
"No Limits" logo.

I'm sure what ever you choose to put on there, it'll come out great. You're one of only a VERY few that I've seen put so much work in the plans before the work begins.