Phoenix Gold Phorum

I sent him my MS475 for some repairs.

I went ahead and asked him what he thought about the amp. quote from the legend him self - Stephen Mantz...

The amplifiers do not put out a lot of power at 12v battery, only 65w at 4 ohm...
The rail voltage at 12v battery is +/-31v with no load. Driving both channels into 4 ohms drops the supply to +/-26v. At 13.8v the supply is +/-34v and there I got 90w/ch. It is a poorly designed supply at best. No common mode choke bad regulation. They have enough power devices to do the job.

The design of the actual amplifier is fine. Power supply bad. Good car bad engine = bad car!

That's all I got out of him on the 275, he's not really talkative


I just sent him my org. 2250 for testing and evaluations. I'll post his comments when it becomes available.

what repairs did you have him do, or were needed on that 475 vin?
just curious?

mhyde71 wrote:what repairs did you have him do, or were needed on that 475 vin?
just curious?

I goofed up on the rail cap install. I was unable to get it to conduct power <lifted solder pad>.

So he just gave you some general information....hmmm....he's pretty cool, he just sent me new case screws for a Gladius....for FREE...I didn't even have to pay shipping..

Do you know if he is using test tones steady state to test the amp? If so, I have to disagree with him.

I personally like to listen to music, not test tones, and with music the amp's power supply does not have much trouble at all keeping up.

i know steve is big on posh power supplies but at the end of the day all what matters is what comes out the other end, and no one can argue with the sq

Stephen's response on the orginal MS2250:

I have a lot of experience with this amplifier and it basically has the same flaws as the smaller "75w/ch" unit. It does 300w/ch at 4 ohms at 14v battery but at 12v battery the power drops to 205w/ch

The amplifier does not do well into 2 ohms and only delivers just over 400w at 4 ohms at 14.4v. At 12v into 2 ohms it is bad at 296w/ch.

I completed the repair of the smaller PG as well.

Seems lalaland isn´t good for phoenix gold amps!

joerg wrote:Seems lalaland isn´t good for phoenix gold amps!

lol, it looks like PG isn't getting a lot of love except from the regulars around here :D:D:D

vin78 wrote:

joerg wrote:Seems lalaland isn´t good for phoenix gold amps!

lol, it looks like PG isn't getting a lot of love except from the regulars around here :D:D:D

who cares, theres something about PG, and always will be, inmy heart/soul, just the way it is-irregardless of power ratings etc., what other brand amp also sound crystal clear, consistently at LOW VOLUME-thats what always impressed me about pg amps, just my 2 cents-even my rsd 500.4 on a bench, at low volume sounds very NICE!

thedeal7235

what other brand amp also sound crystal clear, consistently at LOW VOLUME

The ZED Gladius sitting on my bench

Oh yeah, I sent this amp to someone I know for listening tests against some of his "audiophile" amps his comments....

<Copied from MSN messenger, w/ user names x'ed out>

[09:56] xxx: ur amp
[09:56] xxx: sounds cheap
[09:56] xxx: no width
[09:56] xxx: smooth, but boring opend is...not as extended
[09:57] xxx: as some other amps it seems
[09:58] xxx: not a bad amp, just boring

BTW, he was compaing it to other amps that costs 2-3 x as much of the original MS2250 value in 1990...tru copper, Mac 4400, audisons etc...

Not gong to change my mindset of PG though. Still keeping my collection

vin78 wrote:Not gong to change my mindset of PG though. Still keeping my collection

Good to hear!

dBincognito wrote:thedeal7235

what other brand amp also sound crystal clear, consistently at LOW VOLUME

The ZED Gladius sitting on my bench

Good choice!

Wait til you see their new stuff....

Im phasing out PG a bit and going with their new 6ch amp for my new car.

vin78 wrote:

dBincognito wrote:thedeal7235

what other brand amp also sound crystal clear, consistently at LOW VOLUME

The ZED Gladius sitting on my bench

Good choice!

Wait til you see their new stuff....

Im phasing out PG a bit and going with their new 6ch amp for my new car.

I've been waiting to see those big powerhouse's they keep talking about......10K....I could use that

dBincognito wrote:thedeal7235

what other brand amp also sound crystal clear, consistently at LOW VOLUME

The ZED Gladius sitting on my bench

I could make you a list of zed amps that sound effin great at an volume.

dBincognito wrote:

vin78 wrote:

dBincognito wrote:thedeal7235 The ZED Gladius sitting on my bench

Good choice!

Wait til you see their new stuff....

Im phasing out PG a bit and going with their new 6ch amp for my new car.

I've been waiting to see those big powerhouse's they keep talking about......10K....I could use that

I guess a little head room can't hurt

nutxo wrote:

dBincognito wrote:thedeal7235

what other brand amp also sound crystal clear, consistently at LOW VOLUME

The ZED Gladius sitting on my bench

I could make you a list of zed amps that sound effin great at an volume.

Zed Nakamichi's were the only "zed" made amps I've ever used. It was one of my favorites. I wish I didnt sell it, or else I would use it

I had some US Acoustics.....built by Zed stamped on the boards


They had a very " Live " sound to them....sounded very clean

never heard them b4, db will have to let me listen

To be fair, Stephen does call a lot of amps "junk." The friend who introduced me to him told me that he sent him a lot of amps in the past (Diamond audio D7, Helix, DLS, Sony ES to name a few) that Stephen called junk or weak. So my friend was quite surprised to hear that Zed somewhat approved the amp

No offense to Stephen, but I think the record speaks for itself. I have never once in my life seen one of his amps in a car, or even in a competition car (not to say they are not there, just I don't see them). I know I have ran across plenty of his old stuff from all sorts of companies, and plenty of it sat dead on the Soundbuggy test bench.

In the case of PG I have seen countless local systems using their equipment, and I have seen plenty of competition cars using their equipment. Now maybe PG has better marketing, but I really don't think that is the case. We on the forum have been pissed off for years now concerning PG's complete lack of marketing. ZED has been around so long, if they have all the answers, they would also have a solid understanding of marketing and their products would be everywhere.

Ok, after thinking about this more (a whole 30 minutes more), I think I better just back down before I put my foot in my keyboard (or maybe I already have).

I am a passionate or possibly religious fan of PG products, especially old school things like the MS line. ZED has a huge reputation and many of you really like his products, but I cannot help it, I will gladly go down with the PG ship, and I choose to ignorantly disbelieve any negativity towards PG products.

I do not like ZED products, I never have, and I have absolutely no grounds for my opinion what so ever. I am not an amp designer, I never have been, and I moonlight as a hobbyist amp repair guy which really give me no credibility in this area.

There I have said it, my rant is over and now I will crawl back into my cave and work on resurrecting some more PG amps…