PG Update ??

Post by **mhyde71** » Sat May 30, 2009 11:50 pm

No No I hear ya, nah we're on the same page.. I was tangent-cizing... off on tangent thinking out loud and such of past aspirations... no no absolute!y ... think we were mostly just being facetious... that prolly wouldnt survive and I dont know how to cook, I hate working in kitchens, and I am not a chef!

boogiem0nst3r · Post by **boogiem0nst3r** » Sun May 31, 2009 12:06 am

as spock would say, if he were to speak to PG

"Live long and prosper"

-Vinh

Post by **mhyde71** » Sun May 31, 2009 12:16 am

that's the name for first line
PG Genesis
It brought Spock back!

shaheen · Post by **shaheen** » Sun May 31, 2009 4:08 am

Guys , just a thought from my end, I think we should go back to the basics, ampllifers and processors, this is what built the PG name , the speakers were always an add on and did not take off to well, we could always outsource to a dedicated speaker maker if we wanted to make em.

It's great to say lets bring back the MS range, but in all reality the market has moved on since then , what I would like to see is using the best of all bits and maximising them.

Internationally people are price consious , this is something we need to factor in , I am not a electical guru or a marketing guru or even a finance dude, but I can be the voice of reason.

Also I think Larry is somewhere on here, I knwo he works for Audison, but if possible we could get his input.

Post by **ttocs** » Sun May 31, 2009 5:22 am

I think aquiring the patents and technology would be the first step. I really don't think we need to re-invent the wheel and start bustin out newly designed amp or other componants as with everything they have already done I am sure we could find enough to make and sell. I think with only some minor revisions and some minor updates it wouldn't be too hard give the people what they want.

shaheen · Post by **shaheen** » Sun May 31, 2009 6:12 am

oh and a decent dealer network who can make enough from the product. and protect the brand.

KillerX · Post by **KillerX** » Sun May 31, 2009 9:22 am

I think its a great idea but im gonna be the devils advocate...

First off I think everyone here needs to think why PG is at the level they are at now?
If everyone does buy them, what differences are you going to do that PG didnt do? Its easy for us to say "PG makes great stuff" but why arnt they selling?

I think a large problem is advertising and price. All my "stupid" buddies would rather go out and buy a cheap rockford then a PG and then has the audacity to tell me that their rockford has more watts because thats what it says on the box. Well we all know PG underrated their stuff but alot of people still dont know.

I personally think PG had it pretty good, make low end stuff (octane) mid/High (RSD) and then limited edition that your only gonna make a hand full because you know its really not gonna sell too much.

So again we need to figure out what went wrong in the first place before jumping into anything.

dBincognito · Post by **dBincognito** » Sun May 31, 2009 9:46 am

KillerX

So again we need to figure out what went wrong in the first place before jumping into anything.

I could supply that answer.....but it wouldn't be pretty and nobody would like it

What the real question is......

What is keeping the other companies in business

the wizard · Post by **the wizard** » Sun May 31, 2009 10:06 am

Okay, the ball is OFFICIALLY in motion! Firstly, our primary and secondary objectives are stated. Clearly, the most expeditious thing for us to do is a cost of acquisitions model for the name, branding, and FULL intellectual properties catalogue of Phoenix Gold and its' subsidiaries. Since time is of the essence, Wakeup and I will force ourselves into a 25hr day and draw up an offer package to present to Rodin. Remember money isn't the only thing we can offer. At this point, and since they say they have been losing money on the PG brand, it probably makes more sense for us to offer a combination of three things:

(a. Money
(b. Creative tax crediting retroactive to the inception of their "losses'"
(c. Positive publicity for their remaining brands

Have I missed something, anyone? Please, if someone has an idea I ain't thought of, speak up! I will take a quick peak at their sheets so that I can get a ballpark figure of what PG is worth, and then factor in a couple other things. I will post what I think is a fair offer in the next day or so, and I want EVERYBODY who wants attached to this project to offer an opinion as to whether it is a good offer. Get used to voicing your opinions guys...your input on EVERYTHING, from this acquisition proposal to the design teams works and circuitry goals WILL BE EXPECTED...isn't that what owners do? We will be successful where PG wasn't because we have a PASSION for this, we are not just in it to make a buck! On the other hand, we ARE also here to make this project lucrative and viable, nothings wrong with having fun AND making money.

While acquisition WILL be our main focus for the next week, we should simultaneously assume that this might not work and initiate our contingency plan, our start-up. For this, we need to find out DEFINITIVELY who knows what, so that we can start grouping ourselves into experience and even simple desire. Example, Randy excels at the technical level, but would enjoy chassis design more. That's cool...he may even want to be on more than 1 team (hint,hint) I want EVERYONE to start coming up with objectives for our products, a name for our company (without us getting sued for copyright infringement, yet jarring peoples memory of the quality product which PG USED to produce!), a realistic 1st run product line to immediately give us a return to re-invest in ourselves (not to mention cash for those of us who might be in trouble financially), etc...Also, we will need a place to move this thread. We don't have the right to tie this segment up with our crap, inconveniencing those who aren't interested.

Lastly, but very important...I am feeling the heat of people asking who I am. I'm Batman! Seriously...I realize that I come off as pushy sometimes, or that I make quick decisions which others may not agree with. It is not my intention to offend ANYONE, especially not my partners. Not employees...PARTNERS. As in my EQUALS, in ALL things. We will ALL taste the same success, regardless of input. That's the only way this will work. I would rather NOT post my education, experience, or resources publicly. Not because I "am up to something", but rather I know from experience that it has a way of intimidating people. I have been VERY lucky in life to accomplish some of the things I've accomplished. I am NOT a braggart nor do I want to make ANYBODY feel as though their input in this project is less significant than anyone else's; I don't think I'm better than any of you. Like my Dad says, "people know different stuff." I want this project to work, and I want it to work with dudes who have the same interest...I want to call each of you by your name, and as a friend. Seriously. Those of you who know me (Wakeup, Waynehead) will tell you this is true. I ain't big on ego, and I treat EVERYONE the same!!!! I'm in this for the camaraderie and fun...NOT money. Let's just say this: when I commit, I win. I am a trained, logical thinker with decent resources and will use them to the success of this venture and ALL of you, my friends. I am tenacious, obsessive, and focused. We WILL succeed at this, no matter WHAT it takes. Those of you who are uneasy with my answer, pm me and I will tell you who I am and what I know...I want you ALL to feel as though you can trust me, because you can.

Stryker · Post by **Stryker** » Sun May 31, 2009 10:39 am

ummm I hate to be negative here.... would this sort of thing not require most of the staff to work at the same place, same city, plant etc? I'm guessing this would be Portland. Last I checked peeps were spread out all over the globe. Also an acquisition of this sort would require total restructuring in order to be viable and make a profit, at least in the future. Most new businesses do not turn a profit for a couple of years. With this being said, the economy is in the hole in the USA and many people are unemployed with very little left over to spend on extra's ie:car audio. The market for people, at least how it used to be, of buying systems to replace a factory one is not there for Joe Public IMHO. sure a small minority would replace all of the factory system but most would only do a HU. If I were to buy a decent used vehicle ,which i have recently, or a new one I'm sure not gonna be tossing the stereo in favor of aftermarket high end gear when there is not a need. I for one do not beleive there is a mass appeal for pricey, albeit fine amplifer's like the old days. it is a very small niche market. I beleive it can be done, but to rush into this would be very risky. I for one would love to just support you guys, and I will. GL

There is so many many issue's with a proposal like this that it would be near impossible to address all of them here in an online forum.

shaheen · Post by **shaheen** » Sun May 31, 2009 11:53 am

How are the others survising,

3 things.

Brand protection - Zapco and the rest - no online sales and a dedicated dealer network.
Advertising - not by spending millions but by using their dealer base to spread the word.
Involvement - getting into the OEM market for a lot of companies has proven to be a way forward, with car audio going the way it has it makes sense to get in with a big enough company to pull enough stock from you for the overheads, the rest of the money is pure profit.

brenzbmr@sb · Post by **brenzbmr@sb** » Sun May 31, 2009 12:58 pm

kk i have to agrre with above

how did zapco, one of the most expensive car audio manufactors still stay open...?

because they care about there dealers and there dealers respect them in return which makes for a happy family.

the shop im a silent partner in just picked up zapco..

yeah market is slow but u know what we sell it..

the product speaks for it self and zapco also has great support team.

i think the failure of pg is that they misdirected there money in the wrong
advertising and instead of supporting there dealers, the dealers lost
confidence in PG...

we dont even push pg because the reps dont call back when we want to order, no return calls from pg for long periods of time..

if i was to suggest one thing in getting pg back in the market would be to concentrate on eliminating all that damn ebay sales that degrade thevalue of there product(and all other online sales) and then start gettng some good reps to push the product and then be there when a dealer needs some support..

guys the product is still very good.

but its like putting a beautiful limited edition automobile up on the market and not having any info or person there to answer the questions asked.

food for thought
the reason rockford is still kicking is because they restructured there product lineup and concentrated on dealer support...

thats all pg needs to do...

ONE THING PG NEEDS TO DO IS ASK ALL THERE REMAINING DEALERS WHAT THERE PEEVES ARE WITH PG AND THEN TAKE THAT BACK AND
DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.

bruther · Post by **bruther** » Sun May 31, 2009 12:59 pm

I hope no one minds if I jump in.....I am a forum member like everyone else and love PG.

What I see here is that there are very few views in this thread that represent what you are trying to do. You are trying to buy a business and turn it around. Everyone is going about this the wrong way. I am, by no means trying to insult or underestimate how anyone feels about buying PG. I am only trying to offer advice and expertise. When looking at (Private Equity-Buyouts & Venture Capital) buying a company you never start with numbers. You never start with an end product. You need to start at the foundation. That is, building a business plan. There is a reality here and that is you are wanting to buy a business and not some idea. A business needs to make money first. I understand you may not be in this to make money but no business can survive with negative cash flows.

I would be happy to offer advice. You guys are entering into my area of expertise now. (I don't know how to repair an amp but I do know what goes into Private Equity- Buyouts, Venture Capital).

Please feel free to pm me or ask questions.

Brian

brenzbmr@sb · Post by **brenzbmr@sb** » Sun May 31, 2009 1:16 pm

cool, glad to see a buissness person on here..i dont know crap about buissness

Post by **mr tibbs** » Sun May 31, 2009 2:10 pm

Well, if you guys are serious about this and after much discussion we decide this is something we can actually do I would like in. I might not be able to offer much in the way of money to throw at this but I can offer my time. Besides installing and enjoying the music I listen to I'm not really a technical kind of guy, but I'm a damn workhorse when I need to be. I would love to be a rep and get that end of things back in order. I completely understand what Brenz is saying, if there is no support for the dealers how can PG expect to keep the name out there??!!

Also, I feel that OEM integration is going to have to be a priority. Many of the new cars out there are coming out with better and better factory units. I think that JL, Rockford, and others are on the right track with factory integration. At one time PG was right in the thick of things with processing units, but have fallen off the radar. IMO they need to get back to that if they are going to survive.

joyride · Post by **joyride** » Sun May 31, 2009 3:07 pm

I also would be in for this venture. As with several members, I do not have a huge sum of cash. I do however have a design background and the software for it, and can help out when getting into the product aesthetic/graphic side of things. Not to mention this would be a good way to keep me developing my portfolio and work on my ideation process.

scottn29 · Post by **scottn29** » Sun May 31, 2009 6:54 pm

So who is gonna run the company, who is gonna be top dog?

Post by **mhyde71** » Sun May 31, 2009 7:12 pm

we also should be looking at designing amps that will be "supported" or viable for the hybrid cars that are coming out, no? They of course have 12volts running through there for cigarette lighter, and dome light and stuff, but wouldnt there possibly be the need to be able to intregrate into a 24v system and thus making a power supply for it/that amount of juice? I dunno, I am not familiar with putting a system in a hybrid and how that affects the car's electrical system, but i am sure there are some differences between hybrid and non-hybrid, right?

dBincognito · Post by **dBincognito** » Sun May 31, 2009 7:14 pm

mhyde71 wrote:we also should be looking at designing amps that will be "supported" or viable for the hybrid cars that are coming out, no? They of course have 12volts running through there for cigarette lighter, and dome light and stuff, but wouldnt there possibly be the need to be able to intregrate into a 24v system and thus making a power supply for it/that amount of juice? I dunno, I am not familiar with putting a system in a hybrid and how that affects the car's electrical system, but i am sure there are some differences between hybrid and non-hybrid, right?

I think it would be much simpler to build a 24/14.4 volt converter and slap our name on it

Thumper88 · Post by **Thumper88** » Sun May 31, 2009 7:24 pm

the standard for hybrids is 42 volts, not 24 volts.

dedlyjedly · Post by **dedlyjedly** » Sun May 31, 2009 8:43 pm

All right, I'll bite...Who are you the wizard? What do you bring to the table? Not to be rude, but I think its pertinent information given you say you are looking for business partners. I considered inquiring in a PM but I believe most of us are wondering these very questions, and I didn't see any answers to them in your own "Who-knows-what" thread. We don't need to know your name, or about your wildly successful ventures specifically, but what is your business background? What exactly can you offer to make this proposal a reality? I can understand modesty when it comes to financial resources and such, but in all honesty that's not my primary concern.

I would have to agree with bruther's sentiments regarding the approach being taken towards this business acquisition and/or startup. I really admire the level of determination and drive that you have to accomplish such a large and formidable project wizard. That type of resolve is refreshing and something I strive for. Nonetheless, I can imagine that there are many members here who are hesitant to jump right in and participate because such an unconventional approach is being taken in this business endeavor.

the wizard · Post by **the wizard** » Sun May 31, 2009 11:22 pm

My name is Paul and I am from Fairlawn, Ohio. I originally went to college for Nuclear Engineering and Astrophysics. At 19-years old, I held a security clearance and worked for a Naval Defense Contractor designing uranium enrichment centrifuges as well as many various missile defense systems and Tokomak thermoNuclear fusion reactors. I have also worked at three different fission reactors as a radiation and health physicist. Didn't like the lack of privacy which a security clearance afforded, so I went back to college. Simultaneously attended 3 colleges at once to "speed up" graduation and attend medical school as a Radiologist/Chemothenician. Didn't much care for the idea of paying six-figures for malpractice insurance. Had some good ideas, made some stuff, made some money. Set up a 501(C)(3) charity of my own, where I give away MY OWN MONEY to help people...anyone from collegians needing help to finish college to a family down on their luck and needing some help with their bills...I am VERY BIG on helping those less fortunate then myself, for NO OTHER REASON THAN IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO!!! Had some more ideas, capitalized on them...they went well. Started designing and selling intellectual properties for sports stars. Currently in negotiations to sell a "sports life" type reality show which I wrote about the next NBA superstar, have had significant discussions and interest from VH-1 and ESPN. I have done IP design work for and count as personal friends LeBron and Gloria James, Nolan Ryan, Derek Jeter, Randy Johnson, Joe Montana, Magic Johnson, Julius Erving, Jason Kidd, Wayne Gretzky, Fred Nance, Ichiro Suzuki, Barry Bonds, Michael Vick, and Kevin Martin. I am 45-yrs.old, married and have three children and two Rottweilers, photo of my male included. I want to work on this project for the camaraderie and challenge much more so than money because I KNOW we can do this, and I WILL prove anyone who doubts me wrong...I always do. I don't have an ego problem, but I can be "short" with people sometimes when I see that they aren't maximizing their potential, but everyone else around them is. As I mentioned before, I have to wrap up two projects, and then I can dedicate lots of time to our success, in any capacity demanded of me. I ain't the smartest cookie in the bag, but I ain't one of the crumbs either! This will be fun for me, as well as therapeutic. That is the short version of who I am, but I'm hoping that you will all just call me "friend".

Post by **ttocs** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:32 am

how much faith can we have in a leader that picks such an awful cover for a chair?

Where do we start?

Post by **mr tibbs** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:55 am

That aint a dog, THAT'S A SMALL HORSE!!!

Post by **stipud** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:12 am

I'm going to join the skeptics bandwagon.

I think the main concern is with engineering. We've got lots of ideas, but none of us could design and build amps to anywhere near the same quality as PG's gear. I know just enough to give install advice, or perform minor repairs, but as far as designing a consumer grade amplifier? Heck no. For this to really be viable, we would have to hire PG's original engineering staff members. PG has already let them go, so it wouldn't be a package deal by purchasing the company either. And let's not forget how much an engineer like them would cost... while most of us would be happy to do this part time for little to no money, a full time experienced engineer pulls a pretty good salary.

There's also very little room left in the brick and mortar car audio market for audiophile grade equipment. As Morgan stated, the consumers have changed. People just want some bump in the trunk for $500. And those people will be the meat of your profits. So either you have to have an already successful amp business making entry level gear, so that you can afford to take a loss making an outlier audiophile amp as a statement... or you pretty much need to be an internet boutique brand. Only several brands have succeeded with the audiophile paradigm, but their equipment has been revered for years. I think PG's reputation has taken enough of a beating that we may not be able to pull it off just off the name cred alone.

Also, I started this forum as a minor hobby... somewhere I could hang out with friends. I have no high aspirations in life, I have no desire for a 6 figure income, and I don't want to be challenged. My measure of success is being a good person, and working as little as possible. While I could support you guys by maintaining a forum and websites, there's not much else I could offer you, realistically.