X-MAX subs... Hot or Not?

ElToro · Post by **ElToro** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:57 pm

I read up on the specs of these sub and they don't seem to be really impressive on paper (screen...).

Sure they look drop dead sexy with corbon look and all but, do you buy these because of that? On looks alone, I would!

I know I shouldn't really judge a sub on only its specs alone but, I think a speaker should have some sort of effeciency (92db ish any thing above that is gold). I really like the JBL power series (~95 db) but, then again I haven't heard them. I might buy one just to test it.

All this goes to the point of power and how much can you afford to throw at a sub... I know many of you have huge amps and don't even blink at less effecient subs. I like the subtleness of only having a moderatelly powered system and have it kick @ss.

I guess the ultimate test is to really give them a listen and judge for your self, because we all know we all like different things.

Having said that, I would like your impressiions on the X-Max or any other sub that can be smooth (SQ) and kick hard when wanted.
ID
MB Quarts
Infinity perfect 12 (rocks, I have one)
Others

Let me know...

Thanks.

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:01 pm

I used to run an Xmax 10 on the rear channels of my M44 (bridged).

The Xmax is tight and punchy but I found it lacked low end authority. I didn't feel I was underpowering the sub but I'm not a huge bass head. I like bass but I don't need it to be insane.

The Xmax are good subs if you want tight punch. If you want low end extension that really shakes your car, I would have to say the 10" Xmax probably won't provide that, although I don't know how well it performs on more than ~125W.

oldskoolmseriesfan · Post by **oldskoolmseriesfan** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:05 pm

the xmax are great sounding subs and they can take some really good power aswell, they can be boomy on the bottom end but they are not sloppy in any way, these are my faves from PG, but after listening to an RSDC in stipuds car for SQ and authority with little to no power....they are fricken awesome aswell. Also the X-MAX are friggen sexy, and tough, I remember my buddy who I went to school with, was also the installer at the shop in town here that sold PG, he would punch the cone on the X-MAX and say what other sub can you punch and still use

ElToro · Post by **ElToro** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:52 pm

oldskoolmseriesfan wrote:the xmax are great sounding subs and they can take some really good power aswell, they can be boomy on the bottom end but they are not sloppy in any way, these are my faves from PG, but after listening to an RSDC in stipuds car for SQ and authority with little to no power....they are fricken awesome aswell. Also the X-MAX are friggen sexy, and tough, I remember my buddy who I went to school with, was also the installer at the shop in town here that sold PG, he would punch the cone on the X-MAX and say what other sub can you punch and still use

HAHAHA! Yes. I remember a sales guy holding the wooferfrom the under side by the cone area and letting the structure bounce while he moved it up and down.

That must have been a marketing strategy! Cool info!

joyride · Post by **joyride** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:24 am

Tough is a good way to put it. I have beat on mine, and they never let me down. Come to think of it, I have never had to buy any other subs. I still own the original ones that I had from 2000 (which I got used). Granted, now it is sitting in box in storage, but still. I had it on an XS2500, a ZX500, and finally a ti 1000.2 and it never complained.

As far as sound goes, they are quick subs. They play metal very well, or anything else that requires a very tight and controlled sound. Once you get into the rap with sub 30 hz notes, you may wish for a little more. Although, i think with a good box design you can get them pretty flat down to a low frequency based on the Fs of 16 Hz.

Post by **stipud** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:36 am

The Xmax 10s are great subs. Clean, crisp, and tight. As Joyride said they are phenomenal on metal. When sealed they definitely lack on low end, but I have put them in a ported box tuned to 30-35Hz or so, and they played absurdly low and loud with authority. That was one of my favorite sounding overall setups actually.

Can't say I liked the 12's as much. They are either overmotored or too light. Whatever it is, it causes the aggressiveness of the impacts to be a bit artificial. If you like punchy bass instead of musical bass, they are great, but I found a lot of the music got lost in the punchiness. A lot of longer, slower, sweeping bass notes were not reproduced as faithfully as they can be on modern long excursion subs.

Here's an example vid from when I had the 12's in my car to demonstrate just how ludicrously punchy they are:
http://photo.stipud.com/d/127-2/cryptopsy2.mpg

Personally I prefer smoother subs that can play a wide frequency range and still remain tight (yet not artificially so) in upper bass. The RSDC is definitely the best PG example of this I have come across so far. I think that subs really hit the sweet spot for a balanced musical yet tight sound. The 10s don't get quite as rowdy as the Xmax did, so I tend to prefer the 12" RSDC, though a pair of 10's on more power would probably be the best overall.

ElToro · Post by **ElToro** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:24 pm

Hey Guys thanks for your input, I appreciate it.

Wow! on that video, it almost sounded like the sub's punch drowned out every thing around it. I realize it could be the mic on the camera not up to the task...

I used to have 2 X 12W1 in 3 cubic Ft. sealed and the were pushed by a US Amp 200 with 400W bridged power. It was very nice but I was always looking for more power but, I was a student with no money back then.

Sound very good though... Anybody know the song VIP by Ugly Kid Joe?
Rediculous! check it out, if you can find it....

Post by **stipud** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:51 pm

That was only 250w in my video... those two 12's sealed was by far the loudest setup I have had, per watt. Normally I had them turned down to blend with the front stage but yeah, as you could hear it was pretty much nothing but punch.

Of course those triggered double kicks are supposed to be pretty punchy. Here you can hear the original song (from Quebec's own Cryptopsy!):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmFLcAraMi0

Probably not your style but I love it

ElToro · Post by **ElToro** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:00 pm

it's any aquired taste, I guess.

The song has alot of kick drum. I'm getting pretty melow in my old age. (38)

If you haven't found it here's VIP:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fltMdroUBWU

Try this on double 12s kranked, it rocks!

oldskoolmseriesfan · Post by **oldskoolmseriesfan** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:20 pm

Ugly kid joe

I bought there first album on cassette back in the day.....thanks for making me feel old......none the less, great tunes eh

bogart · Post by **bogart** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:34 pm

they kick ass...I like them quite a bit....ported anyway...they didn't do it for me sealed on 225 per driver...but on 400 ported at 27 hz they will play crazy low for a 10

ElToro · Post by **ElToro** » Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:46 pm

Well, picking up a set of 12s in a sealed 3 cu Ft box in about hour.

We shall see...

Carlos

ElToro · Post by **ElToro** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:07 pm

Ok so I tried my new box on my HT. I think the box is too small.
2X12 in a 2.1... cu ft. I was powering it with a 4B Bryston bridged.
Amp ran avit hot because the X-Max are 3.4 Ohms. they were in series.

I was not impressed all that much. My Infinity Perfect 12s run better...
I will definately try a different box for these 12s.

Post by **stipud** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:53 pm

That's around the ideal box size for a car. I found that with any bigger, and they got even boomier. You may have different results in the house though...

According to the manual they suggest 1.4 per sub for a pure audiophile box
http://download.phoenixphorum.com/Manua ... &boxes.pdf

I would probably not have recommended Xmax for home use. Their high frequency bias and aggressively punchy response is better suited for a car environment, which has more "cabin gain" to boost the lowest octaves. Those subs would probably roll off too quickly in the home.

For a PG home sub I would look at a Xenon subwoofer. The they are geared to play MUCH lower and smoother than an Xmax is. An RSD would also be a good fit at an insanely cheap cost right now, with only slightly more high end bias compared to the Xenon. Both of them like boxes as big as 2cuft.

oldskoolmseriesfan · Post by **oldskoolmseriesfan** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:03 pm

so the XMAX needes 2.4 cubes.....try that size and see. Maybe port them after aswell, because these subs are accurate and pound.

Post by **stipud** » Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:12 am

oldskoolmseriesfan wrote:so the XMAX needes 2.4 cubes.....try that size and see. Maybe port them after aswell, because these subs are accurate and pound.

Porting it may offer the low end boost that it needs in the house. I have experience porting the 10s to the Normal/SPL frequency and they worked out amazingly well.

ElToro · Post by **ElToro** » Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:10 pm

Yah I think these subs need a ported box to get the low extention.
I ran the Xmax through the WINISD (for what ever it'sworth) and the optimal box for low end extentions is ported 2.2 ported.

I might try the box in the car before I make a new box.

I like testing different box layouts.

Stryker · Post by **Stryker** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:15 pm

I'm grabbin a set of 15 Xmax's in a few days. I was thinking about going sealed cause my ported box that I have now is apparently completely different from the one PG suggests. 2 vents per sub and 4" in diameter annnnd 11" long??? I have the box size right now, but I dunno if I can throw in another vent. Box is almost part of the car as it is now, so getting it out to make it work is almost outta da question. I may give it a go with what i have, which is 2.2cu/ft 4"x9" PVC type vent. what do you think Stipud?

Post by **stipud** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:46 pm

2.2 per sub I assume?

That should work fine... it will just be tuned a bit higher than the normal/spl ported box recommendation, which I really liked on my 10's. But since you are replacing the speakers, couldn't you just put elbows on the end of the ports in your box, while the subs are out? A PVC elbow or joiner piece would add about 2-3" and drop your tuning accordingly. You can just buy it at RONA or Canadian Tire...

Tiger · Post by **Tiger** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:22 pm

I'm curious to know how the Audiophile spec Tri-Chamber Bandpass enclosure would sound. I've got enough boot space to try different boxes out for my PG Xmax 12s. I might give it a crack and do a review on it

ElToro · Post by **ElToro** » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:54 am

Any of you ever want to try Decware: http://www.decware.com/newsite/caraudio.html

I had sent a friend to this web site and he tried the Death box 10 and it rocked really good!

Since then, I have always wanted to try his designs.

skullbox15 · Post by **skullbox15** » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:47 pm

I had both the 10s and 12s at one point. I have to say I liked the 12s better, but I was never really able to get either size in box that I was happy with. I had them running on a QX500.1D with the PLD1 and they would thump. I ran into a lot of problems with the line driver initially because it kept clipping.

I still think the xmax is the best looking sub even today. I heard a rumor that someone stuck their finger into one of them at a car show and broke his finger. Again, it's a rumor.